Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Some strong masculine looking guy swimming a very shallow river which doesn't look anything at all like the typical illegal, the shapely women walking in front, well defined "nalgas" all trying to encourage these people to break the laws of the USA.
Believe it or not, it was the Mexican government itself that wrote and printed that little how-to on illegal immigration.
I've argued that the laws should be changed and that certain particular laws are bad and unjust. That's signficantly different than "they should be exempt from rules they don't like." Even my five-year-old understands that difference, but it escapes you and then you lecture me about the "logical conclusion" of my words.
Merely stating something does not make it true.
You haven't provided a reason why those laws are bad or unjust. A rational reason anyway. The everyone who disagrees with you is a racist argument isn't an argument at all but the last resort of someone who can't otherwise defend his arguments.
Quote:
lol what? I mean there are a lot of ridiculous, over the top statements in this forum but this may be top ten.
Most of them being yours and your friends.
Quote:
Oh, here we go again. If we allow two consenting adults to do something, well clearly the next step is to exploit the children. Please, this is the most overused, thouroughly debunked bogus argument out there. People tried it in gay marriage debates. They try it basically any time equal rights for any oppressed group are proposed.
Do you really think you've debunked anything?
Gay rights has nothing to do with illegal aliens.
An employer cannot do whatever he wants. An employee can't agree to work for less than minimum wage or forego safety equipment. We are all bound by laws. I am sorry this concept is utterly alien to you.
Quote:
And it's just as bogus every time. We are talking about CONSENTING ADULTS here. For you to try to change the topic to children to appeal to some emotional image of kids working in sweatshops is a sad, desperate move. It's effectively conceding the debate, since you're basically admitting you have no rational, logical argument to make.
Again consenting adults cannot just do whatever they want especially in the workforce. If you cannot come here unless I support you then don't come here.
But it is good that you admit that appeals to emotion are not much of a debate. You might want to stop doing so.
Quote:
I am fine with that objection. It sounds like what you've got here is a problem with welfare. In that case, why you're arguing in an immigration thread I don't know.
Red herring. Welfare for American citizens has nothing to do with the immigration debate. I pay taxes so I can collect welfare if necessary. I do not pay into the welfare system so that middle class Mexicans can ship their underclass here so they don't have to pay for them.
Quote:
But in your bizarre parallel universe, somehow you read this as me telling you what you really think? Apparently you're not ACTUALLY READING this discussion. You're just furiously typing your hysterical screed into your computer. Discussing anything with you is clearly a waste of time since you don't actually understand what we are discussing and when you do make an argument you do so in bad faith.
I'm glad you recognize that that's what you doing.
Just go on evading my questions. Or calling me the worst insults you think of. Because that's debating.
Quote:
Responding to you does have some positives, though, since it allows me to highlight just how intellectually bankrupt many of the anti-immigrant arguments are. "Identification is equivalent to citizenship!" I'm still LOLing about that one. I couldn't make that one up if I were TRYING to make the worst possible argument against immigrants.
A dl IS often used as de facto ID. I get asked for mine all the time.
FYI, if one wants to talk about intellectual bankruptcy I see no greater intellectual bankruptcy than conflating anti-illegal with anti-immigrant. Illegals are temporary tresspassers not candidates for permanent residency.
Quote:
I would buy an argument that you could stop giving him money. I mean, poor white people get my tax dollars, does that mean I get to tell THEM to move to Alaska? That's the "logical conclusion of your words." Let me show you how that works:
* poor person takes my money
* I can demand he stop coming here
That's your argument. Sense: it makes none.
You are deliberately conflating two different things. Our decision to provide a safety net for our own citizens has NOTHING to do with Mexico. I don't pay taxes in Mexico and I don't expect to use Mexican safety nets. The same applies to Mexicans here, especially those here illegally.
Quote:
Get this through your head: I understand what the law is currently. We're having a normative discussion about what laws should be. Saying "ITS THE LAW" is a completely irrelevant statement.
We're not having a discussion. You're making idiotic accusations and even more idiotic assertions, many of them of a vile personal and inappropriate nature.
Quote:
It's hilarious that you're saying this because you seem to legitimately think that if you don't SAY the word "hispanic" or "black" or whatever, then you're provably not a racist.
Yeah just keep using the word hysterical and then tell me you don't hate women.
Quote:
Hint: racism isn't about what particular words you use when describing how you want to marginalize, dehumanize, and discriminate against entire classes of people.
Rational immigration laws do nothing of kind. No one's stopping illegals from doing anything but moving here. I can't move into your house either without your permission. I suppose that's racism.
Quote:
That's a lie. I gave you a proposal that CLEARLY ADDRESSED those concerns and you instantly dismissed it. It didn't even pique your interest ONE BIT.
You don't really pique my interest much except as a sort of oh my god I can't believe what this person writes.
Quote:
Yeah, opposing them because they speak a different language than you is a bigoted reason to oppose them.
So it would be bigotry if I moved to Mexico, never learned Spanish and demand that everyone in Mexico learn my language and provide with services at every turn in English?
Fantastic!
Quote:
"insult legal immigrants" is a joke. Legalize them and poof, that problem is gone.
You have provided no reason for us to legalize them.
Quote:
"hurt our own poor people" is another bigotry red flag. OUR people are better human beings, deserve more than THOSE dirty people. Yeah, sorry, I don't buy that. All human beings are equally important in my book.
Again you have no idea what bigotry is. Welfare for Americans has nothing to do with illegal aliens. If Mexicans want a better society they should work to create one instead of demanding that people like me create one for them.
Quote:
Make urban planning difficult? This is pretty specious. Citizens are free to move about the country at will. Illeagls might move more frequently, but a large part of that is due to bigotry and discrimination that makes it difficult for them to put down roots and become stable members of society. Legalization fixes this problem.
It is difficult to put down roots somewhere where you don't speak the language and do not have the job skills to succeed. Legalizing Latin American high school drop outs doesn't automatically make up for their linguistic and educational deficiencies. All it does is grant them access to American tax dollars. As a non taxpayer you may be fine with that. As someone who pays taxes I don't see any reason to pay taxes to support badly educated foreigners and their desire to live here.
Quote:
Well, the only objection you have that actually isn't just an obvious smokescreen for some other secret, hidden motive is "they don't speak spanish." You don't need sherlock holmes to deduce the rest.
Some strong masculine looking guy swimming a very shallow river which doesn't look anything at all like the typical illegal, the shapely women walking in front, well defined "nalgas" all trying to encourage these people to break the laws of the USA.
Believe it or not, it was the Mexican government itself that wrote and printed that little how-to on illegal immigration.
Seeing the "Just Say No" to ALIPAC over at Digger's place gave me the first laugh of the morning (as William Potter Gheen the Third has continued to burn bridges among his side)...
Thanks...
If they knew about your CBP "portal" that muscular guy wouldn't need to get all mojado by swimming the river...
Of course quite a few come through "CDJ" now, the U.S. Consulate in Ciudad Juárez...
Seeing the "Just Say No" to ALIPAC over at Digger's place gave me the first laugh of the morning (as William Potter Gheen the Third has continued to burn bridges among his side)...
Thanks...
If they knew about your CBP "portal" that muscular guy wouldn't need to get all mojado by swimming the river...
Of course quite a few come through "CDJ" now, the U.S. Consulate in Ciudad Juárez...
Swimming the river saves you the $600 it takes to have that cartel smuggler bring you to that place at the right time that is there at the Bridge of the Americas, plus you don't have to get all wet.
Where there isn't a river, there's a hike of a few miles but also the inconvenience of waiting for the right time. The $600 allows you all the material comforts you could possibly want. But yes, not everyone knows about it and you have to deal with some extremely shady characters.
There is some humor here you may not be aware of...
Where's the humor? The coyotes aren't really funny guys or women.
You pretty much have to deal with these creeps any way you come over, you don't really want to be caught using one of the cartel's ports of entry without permission and paying them for it whether you hike a few miles or come over right in town.
The everyone who disagrees with you is a racist argument isn't an argument at all but the last resort of someone who can't otherwise defend his arguments.
I don't know if you actually read your posts, but "I don't want to provide for poor MEXICANS" appears in a large percentage of them. For someone who claims not to be racist, you seem to emphasize the ethnic background of other people an awful lot.
Quote:
Most of them being yours and your friends.
Gay rights has nothing to do with illegal aliens.
Yeah, except that the same boogeyman scare tactics are used against both.
Quote:
Again consenting adults cannot just do whatever they want especially in the workforce. If you cannot come here unless I support you then don't come here.
There you go again. Unable to seperate the normative and the positive discussion.
If you don't want to support someone, then I am fine with you not supporting them. The fact that you don't want to support them doesn't give you a right to violently prevent them from doing other stuff.
Quote:
Red herring. Welfare for American citizens has nothing to do with the immigration debate. I pay taxes so I can collect welfare if necessary. I do not pay into the welfare system so that middle class Mexicans can ship their underclass here so they don't have to pay for them.
Right. Not racist, but you can't stop talking about how you get MAD when mexicans might get your money. Anyone else gets it, no biggie. But if mexicans get it, whoa, NOW you're mad.
These are YOUR words.
Quote:
I'm glad you recognize that that's what you doing.
Just go on evading my questions. Or calling me the worst insults you think of. Because that's debating.
Again, hilarious. I didn't evade your questions. I showed how your "you know what I'm thinking?" question made no sense at all. I DIRECTLY CONFRONTED IT.
But you just pretend like I didn't. Or else you're not reading. Keep digging that hole.
Quote:
A dl IS often used as de facto ID. I get asked for mine all the time.
Yes, I agree, that doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying. Again, try reading.
Quote:
FYI, if one wants to talk about intellectual bankruptcy I see no greater intellectual bankruptcy than conflating anti-illegal with anti-immigrant. Illegals are temporary tresspassers not candidates for permanent residency.
Yeah, see that's just a distinction you made up.
Quote:
You are deliberately conflating two different things. Our decision to provide a safety net for our own citizens has NOTHING to do with Mexico. I don't pay taxes in Mexico and I don't expect to use Mexican safety nets. The same applies to Mexicans here, especially those here illegally.
Americans should allow the entire world to come here. No demands should be made on the person coming here. They shouldn't have to demonstrate any knowledge of English before getting here let alone while they live here. They can come here if sick or otherwise unable to support themselves. Once here they should be literally entitled to do anything they want including get public services without paying for them. Their entitlements should include a college degree paid for by Americans as well as full access to our health care services if they cannot afford them and have paid for insurance back home. If Americans don't want to have our pockets picked by a foreign underclass you believe that said underclass is justified in doing whatever they want anyway including coming here in violation of our agreed upon borders, driving without licensure or insurance and calling anyone who dares call them out all sorts of vile names.
You ludicrously believe that anyone who opposes this insane point of view is a fundamentally terrible human being.
These arguments are simply not that compelling to most rational people. I am truly sorry you seem to expend so much energy on the internet attempting to convince people otherwise.
Last edited by Eleanora1; 09-04-2011 at 01:51 PM..
Americans should allow the entire world to come here. No demands should be made on the person coming here. They shouldn't have to demonstrate any knowledge of English before getting here let alone while they live here. They can come here if sick or otherwise unable to support themselves. Once here they should be literally entitled to do anything they want including get public services without paying for them. Their entitlements should include a college degree paid for by Americans as well as full access to our health care services if they cannot afford them and have paid for insurance back home. If Americans don't want to have our pockets picked by a foreign underclass you believe that said underclass is justified in doing whatever they want anyway including coming here in violation of our agreed upon borders, driving without licensure or insurance and calling anyone who dares call them out all sorts of vile names.
You ludicrously believe that anyone who opposes this insane point of view is a fundamentally terrible human being.
These arguments are simply not that compelling to most rational people. I am truly sorry you seem to expend so much energy on the internet attempting to convince people otherwise.
Well, now illegals are being called an "oppressed" group. Got a good laugh out of that one. If anyone is oppressing them it is their own countries but of course it is up to us big meany Americans to fix things for them at the expense of our own citizens. It pains me that there are Americans in this country that actually think this way.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Please, this is the most overused, thouroughly debunked bogus argument out there. People tried it in gay marriage debates. They try it basically any time equal rights for any oppressed group are proposed.
