I am really so torn on this issue. We should help but enforce too (illegal aliens, laws)
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why should they be afforded any latitude for breaking the law.....? Other get in line before they force their way in, thereby, breaking the law. You sound as if we owe a lawbreaker something....that is what gripes people so is that kind of attitude...the lawbreakers are owed something...NOT.
And, yes, I do know illegals. Employed one for 2 years before he was deported for the 3rd time. He had a Puerto Rican wife and a young child and when I agreed to let him work, they needed money for food. I paid him a better than average wage, more than he originally asked for. I also knew when and if he achieved legal status, he would not work for me anymore and would go after a better job.
He was a decent worker but when he was leaving for deportation, he stole suitcases from me, a present from my husband. I paid for his plane fare back to Mexico so he wouldn't have to (horrors) ride the bus......I know he had no loyalty to me or respect for anything I had done for him and his family....
I have met and known many other illegals.....most are shysters and will take advantage of you. I have many stories of trying to be helpful to people down on their luck but I also have family members, down on their luck, and resources are being siphoned away from them by illegals. So don't lecture me.
Yeah, I kinda don't believe you. I can believe one or two people you've met being general *ssholes, but it stretches belief that you would meet nothing but those types of people. People are just not that different, no matter where they're coming from. They all have the same flaws and characteristics, both good and bad. Most people are generally decent, though. So, either you are just very unlucky, or you are a very poor judge of character and surround yourself with people looking to take advantage of you. Regardless, if anecdotals is all the evidence you need, my own experience is just the opposite of yours. All this would indicate is that, like I just stated, people are flawed but generally mostly decent and trying to make a living.
No, the unemployment rate only includes people who are in the labor force (people who are working or looking for work).
If you are self-employed and don't need or want other work, you wouldn't be counted.
You were stating that self-employment is counted the same way in both countries, I'm saying it's not. To be counted as self-employed, if you have intention of paying taxes on your income, that is, you have to register your business, and your business must meet certain requirements to even have taxes collected. In Mexico, you are counted regardless of how big your business is or how much money you make doing it. If you made $1 a year selling fruit from your doorstep, you're counted as being employed. This artificially lowers the rate in Mexico more than it would be in the US.
Do you believe that every single person, every single family from every single country has exactly the same opportunities, education, wealth etc. in order to make a legal immigration? If so, then you actually don't know much about immigration at all, or the many varied circumstances that come into play for different people.
Why does that really matter though? You don't cheat legal Americans and immigrants just to get yours. That's what is happening. I don't mean "you," I'm talking about illegal immigrants.
As this discussion continues I feel I have to point out to some that a comment can be "nasty" even if it is factual. Anything can be stated in a polite and civil manner, as well as anything can be said in an offensive manner. City-data is a forum where all can voice their opinions, as long as they at least try remaining civil. It doesn't matter whether they are "right" or "wrong", especially since these terms are highly subjective. Please keep this in mind and maybe, just maybe, if you stop trying to make your posts as angry as you can, you could have a debate.
Yac.
Why is it okay for you to make stereotypical, nasty comments about entire groups of people based on one small (and yes it is small) characteristic, but you find it offensive that I would do that with you? What's wrong, don't appreciate irony? I do.
What are you talking about?
Where I have used stereotypes? I've simply recited what illegals do and expressed disgust at it. Apparently even the merest hint that what they're doing is not fine is not allowed.
Quote:
I don't have a black and white view on this topic and I don't see it as rewarding breaking the law as I still advocate that illegals pay fines and go onto a probationary period for a period of time, and they still have to stay employed, stay out of trouble, etc. In effect, I believe that immigration policy can be made to address multiple problems. It doesn't have to be an either-or situation. And I don't feel like I need to go out of my way to be nasty and inhumane to these people, especially when I understand the context of why most of them come. Many of you do not, do not know any illegals, have never lived in Mexico, etc. Sorry, but it is from pure ignorance that most of the opinions on this forum are formed.
You are perfectly free to find the social costs imposed by illegals okay. But it's hardly nasty or inhumane to recite them. It's also hardly ignorance to point out that conditions in Mexico are not exactly Nazi Germany. Asking people to obey our immigration laws, stop driving on our roads without permission, using our schools without paying for them and lowering wages for our poorest citizenry is not cruel. It's treating them like adults instead of children who simply can't help their actions.
On some level I don't care why they come. I care that they are fiscal burden and I care even more that they should leave. American immigration policy, like immigration policies of ALL nations, should be based on what is right for Americans, not what is suited for foreign nationals largely from Mexio.
Why does that really matter though? You don't cheat legal Americans and immigrants just to get yours. That's what is happening. I don't mean "you," I'm talking about illegal immigrants.
I don't think it's cheating legal Americans and immigrants though. I think, having dealt with this issue personally (no, I'm not an immigrant but have dealt directly with the immigration system), I see the real cheating in a system that has built-in discrimination, especially when it comes to financial success. For most illegals, legal immigration is and always was an impossibility. So the call to send them home and to apply legally like others doesn't make any sense. Most would never be allowed in legally.
Where I have used stereotypes? I've simply recited what illegals do and expressed disgust at it. Apparently even the merest hint that what they're doing is not fine is not allowed.
You are perfectly free to find the social costs imposed by illegals okay. But it's hardly nasty or inhumane to recite them. It's also hardly ignorance to point out that conditions in Mexico are not exactly Nazi Germany. Asking people to obey our immigration laws, stop driving on our roads without permission, using our schools without paying for them and lowering wages for our poorest citizenry is not cruel. It's treating them like adults instead of children who simply can't help their actions.
On some level I don't care why they come. I care that they are fiscal burden and I care even more that they should leave. American immigration policy, like immigration policies of ALL nations, should be based on what is right for Americans, not what is suited for foreign nationals largely from Mexio.
Our immigration policies don't even benefit Americans, though. The whole system is a disaster. And we definitely have different definitions of being humane.
I don't think it's cheating legal Americans and immigrants though. I think, having dealt with this issue personally (no, I'm not an immigrant but have dealt directly with the immigration system), I see the real cheating in a system that has built-in discrimination, especially when it comes to financial success. For most illegals, legal immigration is and always was an impossibility. So the call to send them home and to apply legally like others doesn't make any sense. Most would never be allowed in legally.
You know WHY they're not allowed in legally? Because we don't need more high school drop out who don't speak English here. It's disgraceful that they feel free to ignore our immigration laws and come anyway.
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Originally Posted by jbcmh81
Our immigration policies don't even benefit Americans, though. The whole system is a disaster. And we definitely have different definitions of being humane.
This is actually true. Our immigration laws are based far too much on allowing recent immigrants to bring in even more unksilled immigrants even when they pose a burden on the country.
You're also right that we have different definitions of being humane. I don't think it all that humane to import large numbers of foreign nationals who don't speak English and compete with locals for jobs while collecting taxes to support themselves from said locals. I certainly don't think humane to overcrowd our schools, reduce funding for music and art programs and then turn around and hire ESL teachers to serve the needs of foreign nationals who've broken our immigration laws as they've done around here. I don't think it all that humane to force Americans to serve as a safety net for the least able citizenry of another country.
That's very cruel. It's certainly unfair to the Mexican middle class let alone the multiple billionaires who reside there. Why should they be allowed to simply tell their welfare burdens to go to another country?
I don't think it's cheating legal Americans and immigrants though. I think, having dealt with this issue personally (no, I'm not an immigrant but have dealt directly with the immigration system), I see the real cheating in a system that has built-in discrimination, especially when it comes to financial success. For most illegals, legal immigration is and always was an impossibility. So the call to send them home and to apply legally like others doesn't make any sense. Most would never be allowed in legally.
The flaw in the system isn't that we dont allow enough immgrants to apply and be accepted. Nor is it that our standards are to high. Quite honestly we don't owe anyone a VISA.
We as a nation should be very selective about who we grant the gift of a VISA to, we will after all be forced to live with them. If anything we are not selective enough.
Take your average illegal that you would grant amnesty:
Entered illegally
ID fraud or theft
Tax fraud or evasion
Driving without a license
To name 4 crimes right off the bat and 3 of them would get a citizen jailed.
Is this the kind of immigrant we really want? I understand poor. More than most because I have actually been to countries where a tin shack was called home and 10 dollars a day was the house hold income.
When I first got out of the military I made $7800 for that year.
I never once considered crime, theft, welfare as a way to meet my needs.
Honest people wont.
Illegals like most criminals have a multitude of excuses. Starting with my crime didnt hurt anyone.
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