Could it be that breaking the laws is good if they are unfair? (illegal aliens, represent)
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Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
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I don't know but this quote from Gandhi left me thinking.
Quote:
"I do not deny that I am breaking the law " ,Gandhi said in the courtroom. "It is my duty to India and to Great Britain not to co-operate with unfair laws, .
If someone has seen Gandhi's movie, with Ben Kingsley representing him, I recommend it, what would have Gandhi done if he was an illegal immigrant?
What are your thoughts?
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 11,445,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth
Unfair to who? Unfair to the illegals or unfair to the US citizens who get stuck with the bill?
well I guess they are unfair to everybody.
it is unfair that humans are illegal imho no one should be illegal, actions that harm others should be illegal though.
it is also unfair that US citizens get stuck with the bill because these people are illegal, instead of being legal and having to pay their taxes just like everybody else
it is unfair that humans are illegal imho no one should be illegal, actions that harm others should be illegal though.
it is also unfair that US citizens get stuck with the bill because these people are illegal, instead of being legal and having to pay their taxes just like everybody else
No, people from outside the US do not have some inherent right to come to the US. The primary purpose of US immigration law is to control immigration in a way that benefits the US. Not Mexico. Not El Salvador. Not Guatemala. The main goal of Mexico's immigration laws is to control immigration in a way that benefits Mexico. It is like this for any country. I do not care if Mexico thinks our immigration laws are unfair. I would not expect them to care if I thought theirs were unfair.
If you are in the US in violation of our immigration laws you are here illegally. The 'no human is illegal' slogan is merely a smokescreen meant to divert attention from that fact.
The notion of making them legal so they can pay taxes like everybody else is a sad joke. Most earn so little they will be paying minimal if any taxes. Under our system, if they earn little enough they can collect EITC funds and end up not only paying nothing into the system, but getting even more money back. What a deal! And once they are legal then they CAN begin to collect the full buffet of benefits that US citizens qualify for. So we would have millions more collecting welfare, foodstamps, etc. while contributing little in the way of taxes to offset this use. This is a recipe for disaster for the US.
Illegal aliens need to return to their home countries and work to change things there.
it is unfair that humans are illegal imho no one should be illegal, actions that harm others should be illegal though.
it is also unfair that US citizens get stuck with the bill because these people are illegal, instead of being legal and having to pay their taxes just like everybody else
Unfortunately, in a world of millions upon millions of strangers, laws are how we regulate our society. Some laws may seem unfair to some people--and ALL laws, by definition, are arbitrary. Drive 54 miles per hour on most American highways, and you're just a driver. Speed up to 56 MPH, and you're breaking the law. Get drunk in your backyard, and its OK---get behind the wheel of your car drunk, though, and you're a criminal. Most males recognize the tremendous legal differences between a 17-year old female and an 18-year old...and the list goes on. Laws, by their nature, are exclusionary. They include some people, and exclude others. That's the way human society works, and will continue to, until all humans can trust one another, and all humans can "leave their doors unlocked". And that time, I'm afraid, is a long way off.
I doubt that there is any law, anywhere, criminal or civil, that somebody hasn't said is "unfair". It would be nice to think that "there are no illegal humans". But this us splitting hairs---of course there's no human who has "illegal DNA"---and no one who is "no good at all". But there are plenty of "humans temporarily doing illegal things". That's why we have police, jails, lawyers, and security guards...and fences.
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 11,445,651 times
Reputation: 1463
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth
No, people from outside the US do not have some inherent right to come to the US. The primary purpose of US immigration law is to control immigration in a way that benefits the US. Not Mexico. Not El Salvador. Not Guatemala. The main goal of Mexico's immigration laws is to control immigration in a way that benefits Mexico. It is like this for any country. I do not care if Mexico thinks our immigration laws are unfair. I would not expect them to care if I thought theirs were unfair.
If you are in the US in violation of our immigration laws you are here illegally. The 'no human is illegal' slogan is merely a smokescreen meant to divert attention from that fact.
The notion of making them legal so they can pay taxes like everybody else is a sad joke. Most earn so little they will be paying minimal if any taxes. Under our system, if they earn little enough they can collect EITC funds and end up not only paying nothing into the system, but getting even more money back. What a deal! And once they are legal then they CAN begin to collect the full buffet of benefits that US citizens qualify for. So we would have millions more collecting welfare, foodstamps, etc. while contributing little in the way of taxes to offset this use. This is a recipe for disaster for the US.
Illegal aliens need to return to their home countries and work to change things there.
Dear Andreabeth: I've also thought on them coming back and helping us arrange the house, but I like to ponder all the posibilities.
Now tell me, do the current laws really benefit America? because I have the impression they don't, but I might be wrong.
I'd also like to kindly ask you? all this you tell me about welfare, foodstamps, etc is something you know that happens based on your personal experience? or it is just what you read in the news?
And if it is true couldn't it be that the welfare system is wrong? what about welcome to America swim or sink, work hard and leave a positive mark here, and you are set for the American dream.
Finally, how can be so sure that it is a recipe for disaster? if you haven't experienced life in such a system
imho Immigration laws in the world are just plain wrong, they do more harm than good and I can say that based on my personal experience, they are unfair and aother world could be possible, I have the strong belief that we'll get there somehow, but it can be the hard way by painful experience, or the easy way using our wisdom and common sense, I might be wrong though, but that's what intuition and personal experience tell me.
american lifestyles are considered excellent by global comparison. to go from excellent to above average, at the expense of bettering another, less fortunate group of people should not be seen as sacrificial. it should be seen as humane and necessary.
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 11,445,651 times
Reputation: 1463
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal
Unfortunately, in a world of millions upon millions of strangers, laws are how we regulate our society. Some laws may seem unfair to some people--and ALL laws, by definition, are arbitrary. Drive 54 miles per hour on most American highways, and you're just a driver. Speed up to 56 MPH, and you're breaking the law. Get drunk in your backyard, and its OK---get behind the wheel of your car drunk, though, and you're a criminal. Most males recognize the tremendous legal differences between a 17-year old female and an 18-year old...and the list goes on. Laws, by their nature, are exclusionary. They include some people, and exclude others. That's the way human society works, and will continue to, until all humans can trust one another, and all humans can "leave their doors unlocked". And that time, I'm afraid, is a long way off.
I doubt that there is any law, anywhere, criminal or civil, that somebody hasn't said is "unfair". It would be nice to think that "there are no illegal humans". But this us splitting hairs---of course there's no human who has "illegal DNA"---and no one who is "no good at all". But there are plenty of "humans temporarily doing illegal things". That's why we have police, jails, lawyers, and security guards...and fences.
I agree with most of your post macmeal, but what common sense tells you?
mine tells me that there are fair laws and unfair laws, why?
a fair law is a law that protect people from being harmed, like the speeding limits, but we are full of dumb and obsolete laws in the world, and imho immigration laws are just that, most people don't care because we were isolated before the internet age, but the more people gets connected and a global culture is developed, the more people will start to demand for fairer migration laws in every country, I might be wrong, but we'll see that with time
I agree that no one should be illegal. If they don't belong here, they should not be here. The thing that causes me the most concern about those people who are here illegally is that they do not seem to have any respect for the law and I am concerned that will turn us into a third world type country. Obeying laws is what separates us from the animals. To live without law is to live with chaos. People who think they are above the law scare me.
Dear Andreabeth: I've also thought on them coming back and helping us arrange the house, but I like to ponder all the posibilities.
Now tell me, do the current laws really benefit America? because I have the impression they don't, but I might be wrong.
I'd also like to kindly ask you? all this you tell me about welfare, foodstamps, etc is something you know that happens based on your personal experience? or it is just what you read in the news?
And if it is true couldn't it be that the welfare system is wrong? what about welcome to America swim or sink, work hard and leave a positive mark here, and you are set for the American dream.
Finally, how can be so sure that it is a recipe for disaster? if you haven't experienced life in such a system
imho Immigration laws in the world are just plain wrong, they do more harm than good and I can say that based on my personal experience, they are unfair and aother world could be possible, I have the strong belief that we'll get there somehow, but it can be the hard way by painful experience, or the easy way using our wisdom and common sense, I might be wrong though, but that's what intuition and personal experience tell me.
Peace, Love, Light and Harmony!
Dear travellin fella,
It's getting late and I am tired. How about if I get back to you in the morning?
Also, do you have any updates on the flood situation?
andreabeth
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