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You're making erroneous statements here. The reasons we have stated that we want illegal aliens deported is because they are here in violation of our immigration laws, they are an enormous fiscal burden to the taxpayer and they have taken jobs from Americans. If that isn't reason enough to want them deported then I don't know what is.
If they stay they will still be able to retain jobs that Americans need and keep wages low. They will qualify for all kinds of benefits that will continue to deplete our tax coffers. They will continue to send billions out of our economy to their families back home. An American wouldn't be doing that for the most part. If they were deported instead Americans would get their jobs back and they in turn would be paying taxes and contributing to our economy so you were sayin?
You know, there is this thing...it's called...a joke. Geez, get a sense of humor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan
Sorry; I don't believe you there. Cut OFF benefits for abled bodied US citizens who can work but won't; they'll start working real fast. Too; many employers LIKE hiring illegals because they make good "slaves" like as in they're easy to cheat, over work and so on. Dirty businesses CAN'T do that to US citizens because many of us WILL fight back and win.
Ok, cut off everything. You are right...I want to cut off benefits for everyone..no more medicaid, no more medicare, no more payments to old people that no longer work either, let their families take care of them. If we are going to do this, let's do it ALL the way. Go big or go home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrannis
Why must you engage in such rhetoric? Advocate for slavery? C'mon. My point is that once you decide everyone is 'entitled to a fair wage', the question becomes "who decides what's fair?". The government? No thanks. But again, we're off topic.
It's hopelessly naive to believe that if we deport all of the illegals, that the unproductive members of our nation are suddenly going to start contributing to our society.
I do care about Americans who've been impacted by immigration, both illegal AND legal. That's the difference between you and me. The negative impact you mention has nothing to do with whether they're legal or not. You rail against illegals, yet you advocate letting these same exact people into our country legally. Basically, you're OK with losing our culture, as long as it's done in a trickle instead of a flood.
You've contributed a lot to this forum, why the sudden desire to run off?
Your culture? What culture? The united states is a mixture of cultures of people from italy, ireland, spain, germany, you name it. America's so called "culture" is just a mixture of all the European cultures together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ
I am not going to rehash the points that Old Gory has made. The points are very mush the points of American Citizens. The Problem is Open boarder crowd does not care about the impact they leave thru lowering wages in construction/ hospitality Industry and other services. Illegals thru false documents cheat Americans of Services this country enjoys.
Even hell bent Democrat Unions see the impact because they in turn weaken the unions.
My Question to those who are here Illegally, what gives you the right to come here with out permissions of the legal worker programs? No is going to answer that one!
deportation is the only way we are going to clean up this mess that the Feds created because of lack of enforcement.
E-Verify works well and works very good in Arizona, my home state. Arizona is one of few states who go after employers. Arizonians have been known to turn in their management , because the Illegal work force undermines Americans.
Unfortunately , the anchor baby issue is sad that Illegals try to have babies in the United States for some hope of status. Again what gives them the right to even do that? So the short answer is to deport whole families until the message is received , this will not be tolerated in US Territory.
We are at a point where direct firm action is required.
Haha, you said "Old gory" lol
I am also tired of hearing about "lower wages" on this board...I wish!! I live in an area that has a lot of blue collar people. The last person that I talked to was a "helper". How much do they make? Try $18/hr. And that's low? No, it should be like around $10. So I really would like to see where these "lower wages" are at because my friends are definitely not getting it. They have their own houses, toys, you name it.
Why must you engage in such rhetoric? Advocate for slavery? C'mon. My point is that once you decide everyone is 'entitled to a fair wage', the question becomes "who decides what's fair?". The government? No thanks. But again, we're off topic.
It's hopelessly naive to believe that if we deport all of the illegals, that the unproductive members of our nation are suddenly going to start contributing to our society.
I do care about Americans who've been impacted by immigration, both illegal AND legal. That's the difference between you and me. The negative impact you mention has nothing to do with whether they're legal or not. You rail against illegals, yet you advocate letting these same exact people into our country legally. Basically, you're OK with losing our culture, as long as it's done in a trickle instead of a flood.
You've contributed a lot to this forum, why the sudden desire to run off?
When it's a trickle instead of a flood, the immigrants are far more likely to assimilate. What we have now is entire villages moving in en masse and no inclination of any kind to adapt or learn anything of this country or it's language, it's laws or customs.
Work visas are the best because those who wish to succeed in the work place and keep their visas are far more likely and able to adapt and learn the language. Family chain migration is ridiculous. Family sponsorship should be limited to legal spouse and minor children. A point system should be put in place where ability to work would be some amount of points, fluency in English would add points, having a family member here might add a point or two but not be the only factor.
You know, there is this thing...it's called...a joke. Geez, get a sense of humor.
Ok, cut off everything. You are right...I want to cut off benefits for everyone..no more medicaid, no more medicare, no more payments to old people that no longer work either, let their families take care of them. If we are going to do this, let's do it ALL the way. Go big or go home.
Your culture? What culture? The united states is a mixture of cultures of people from italy, ireland, spain, germany, you name it. America's so called "culture" is just a mixture of all the European cultures together.
Haha, you said "Old gory" lol
I am also tired of hearing about "lower wages" on this board...I wish!! I live in an area that has a lot of blue collar people. The last person that I talked to was a "helper". How much do they make? Try $18/hr. And that's low? No, it should be like around $10. So I really would like to see where these "lower wages" are at because my friends are definitely not getting it. They have their own houses, toys, you name it.
If you're going to make jokes about this very serious issue then at least make it apparent you are doing so. I'm not a mind reader. I don't find this issue a humorous matter but that doesn't mean I have no sense of humor otherwise.
So you would take benefits from the real citizens of this country to equal out removing them from illegal aliens? WTH?
The U.S. has it's own unique "identifying" culture. "Out of many. one" aka a melting pot. Part of that identifying culture is the English language. We are not German, Italian, Hispanic or Asian in identity for example, just because we have citizens here whose roots were from elsewhere.
Get tired of hearing the truth all you want it won't change the facts and the fact is that illegal aliens have lowered wages for American blue collared workers by working on the cheap, particularly in the construction industry.
When it's a trickle instead of a flood, the immigrants are far more likely to assimilate. What we have now is entire villages moving in en masse and no inclination of any kind to adapt or learn anything of this country or it's language, it's laws or customs.
Work visas are the best because those who wish to succeed in the work place and keep their visas are far more likely and able to adapt and learn the language. Family chain migration is ridiculous. Family sponsorship should be limited to legal spouse and minor children. A point system should be put in place where ability to work would be some amount of points, fluency in English would add points, having a family member here might add a point or two but not be the only factor.
The person you are responding to just doesn't get the reasons for annual quotas for LEGAL immigration or maybe they do but don't give a hoot. They are designed to take into account job availability without removing job opportunities for Americans and our ability to provide them with social and natural resources without depriving our own citizens. That's why myself and most Americans are ok with legal immigration but not illegal immigration. Illegal immigration negates these quotas and the sane reasons behind them by adding "immigrants" we don't need and they then become a burden to us or they take jobs from Americans by working on the cheap. It adds additional stress on our resources also. What's so hard to understand about that simple concept? Someone who states that humans shouldn't be entitled to a fair wage aka the going rate and/or the set minimum wage for some jobs is indeed advocating for slavery.
You know, there is this thing...it's called...a joke. Geez, get a sense of humor.
Ok, cut off everything. You are right...I want to cut off benefits for everyone..no more medicaid, no more medicare, no more payments to old people that no longer work either, let their families take care of them. If we are going to do this, let's do it ALL the way. Go big or go home. Amen to that!
Your culture? What culture? The united states is a mixture of cultures of people from italy, ireland, spain, germany, you name it. America's so called "culture" is just a mixture of all the European cultures together.
Point to that is Illegals do not wish to pick up American way of life. They do not speak English or attempt to learn. They hold their country of origin above the USA. Frankly most of them hate Americans!
Haha, you said "Old gory" lol
I am also tired of hearing about "lower wages" on this board...I wish!! I live in an area that has a lot of blue collar people. The last person that I talked to was a "helper". How much do they make? Try $18/hr. And that's low? No, it should be like around $10. So I really would like to see where these "lower wages" are at because my friends are definitely not getting it. They have their own houses, toys, you name it.
4perhour with anything
Ok I get your point of view . For the record most Illegal help gets about 10.00$ here in South Florida and Phx. You still have not answered the question?
Why do you want to give status to people who intentional broke the law. Obtain false ID and forged SSN.
Applied for Benefits reserved for citizens.
Every contractor ( I am in the Biz) I know really has to sell hard to compete against a Illegal who operated from his Pick up.
These contractor do not pull permits and never mind insurance.
The good tread is most Contractors now required Insurance and all welders are certified. Because of the Liability.
So Why do you wish to approval of Illegal Behavior?
Your culture? What culture? The united states is a mixture of cultures of people from italy, ireland, spain, germany, you name it. America's so called "culture" is just a mixture of all the European cultures together.
Yes, that is precisely my point. And it ought to remain a European culture, not a third world melting pot.
When it's a trickle instead of a flood, the immigrants are far more likely to assimilate. What we have now is entire villages moving in en masse and no inclination of any kind to adapt or learn anything of this country or it's language, it's laws or customs.
How I wish that were true. Have you spent much time in Miami, Los Angeles, or San Antonio? There are large communities in these and many other cities where English is rarely heard and do not resemble America. The people in these communities didn't show up in droves here yesterday; they've been here for years, and most of them are legal.
How I wish that were true. Have you spent much time in Miami, Los Angeles, or San Antonio? There are large communities in these and many other cities where English is rarely heard and do not resemble America. The people in these communities didn't show up in droves here yesterday; they've been here for years, and most of them are legal.
We are not speaking of folks who naturalizes and become citizens. That not the problem. The problem is the 11 m and the other potential Illegal who wish to storm America.
Deporting whole families would seem cruel, but over time it would send a message to would Illegal Immigrants and many these Illegals would self deport.
Once we return to satisfy current Immigrations laws we can have a civil discussion on hoe to improve the process.
The person you are responding to just doesn't get the reasons for annual quotas for LEGAL immigration or maybe they do but don't give a hoot. They are designed to take into account job availability without removing job opportunities for Americans and our ability to provide them with social and natural resources without depriving our own citizens. That's why myself and most Americans are ok with legal immigration but not illegal immigration. Illegal immigration negates these quotas and the sane reasons behind them by adding "immigrants" we don't need and they then become a burden to us or they take jobs from Americans by working on the cheap. It adds additional stress on our resources also. What's so hard to understand about that simple concept?
The person he's responding to has given you ample opportunity to explain yourself and you've chosen instead to ignore me. I can only presume you're unable to defend your position. Legal third world immigration has the same negative impact on our wages, social services and our culture, and yet you are in support of this. Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
Someone who states that humans shouldn't be entitled to a fair wage aka the going rate and/or the set minimum wage for some jobs is indeed advocating for slavery.
Again, you are misrepresenting what I said. Let me explain once more. The "going rate" for any job should be determined by the market. I don't want government, you, or any other entity deciding what is a "fair wage". If you'd like to discuss it further, feel free to start a new thread.
We are not speaking of folks who naturalizes and become citizens. That not the problem. The problem is the 11 m and the other potential Illegal who wish to storm America.
But it is the "folks" who are the problem, not whether they're legal or not. You seem to think that if these same people come here legally, or in smaller numbers, that they will assimilate. That hasn't happened. There's no reason to think it is going to happen.
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