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I don't think any of us should acknowledge the assertions of Mexico every attacking us for California or the southwest. It's a good idea for a movie, but not reality. We're talking about Mexico here. So a few loser rebels have crazy ideas. Good for them. You know what we got? The United States military? Not to mention the National Guard and anything else. Even with most of our troops in Iraq, we could still smack them sideways. Even if it was the border patrol versus them, we'd still take them down. Who would have the balls to stand up to our military? Not to mention the United Nations too, who would be on our side (even though our president has a bad habit of ignoring them).
Even though our economy is sluggish, Mexico is not a wealthy country (although not a poor one either). The Mexican government gets along with our government - even if they don't always politically agree. If a few La Raza losers think they have the potential to get rowdy, than let's see the money, resources and military they put up. They got nothing and half of them are in America college students who you'd never be able to identify.
A slow-motion, unarmed (for the most part) invasion and takeover by sheer numerical superiority. How you people can't see it when over 10% of the nation's population is illegal and closer to 25% in the southwest is absolutely beyond me. There are 40 million illegals in America, the majority of which are from Mexico. The VAST majority of the remainder come from other nations south of Mexico.
There will be war in the streets before it's all said and done, I'll give odds on that.
SimpleMan if you really live in Minnesota (sp?) then why would this bother you. Mexicans in LA have nothing to do with you all the way in Minnesota. And you think that just because Mexicans are Mexican they are all illigal.
You obviously haven't chilled with any Mexicans. You "claim" you have black friends do they share the same view of you that Mexicans are out to get them?
Wow, where do I start with this.... First of all, look up in the right hand corner when I post, where does it list as my location? Does it say Minnesota? If you bothered to read my post, it says I've LIVED (as in past tense) in Minnesota.
Second, where in the $%^$ did you get that I think all Mexicans are illegal? Seriously, you can't just make things up when every word is posted and accounted for on this thread.
Third, I have many, and I mean MANY Mexican friends. I live in an area that is 60-70% hispanic in most cities. I have no problem with any race, I do however have a problem with those who ignore our immigration laws. Hope that clears up any confusion you may have had.
Forth, YES, the black friends AND white friends I have feel hatred from the Latino gangbangers in our area, and many of these latinos have no problem admitting they don't like black or white people. Are they all like that? No. But it does happen all too often. (figured I'd put in that disclaimer before you started putting words in my mouth)
Lastly, what does ANY OF THIS have to do with the first post that got your panties in a bunch, the one that said that many Mexican gangs in LA are openly trying to eliminate blacks? You may fool some people with your misdirection, but how about you address the matter at hand. Regardless of where you live/lived or where I live/lived, there ARE Latino gangs in LA who want to eliminate blacks from the city, you inferred my statement to be untrue even though I provided you with a source. If you have an argument, apply it to that.
Yes, I know about your sensitivity to terms, so is the term "invasion" better for you? Is Mexico actually physically attacking us? No, I would think that was pretty obvious. But with 20-30 million people entering the country illegally, that to me is definitley an invasion, and in a way, yes, we are "under attack" by those who seek to reclaim what was once Mexico's.
I know i said we're not LA or anything but we have a decent amount of Hispanics. And yeah we do have a lot of black people Milwaukee is Majority-Minority
Well that's if you buy into the terminology of the crap that the United States media delivers to you. Technically, the government says Hispanic isn't a race. I don't even know if there is a legal classification minorities. It's all played up by the media. The fact that ''Hispanics'' aren't minorities is due to the fact they aren't a race.
Ethnicity and race are separate. I know it's not easy for most to understand because the media takes little initiative to describe this (if they did - what kind of political tool would it be?). Think of it this way. Blacks are 39.5% of Milwaukee. Asian/Pacific Islands are 3.65%. Native Americans are 0.8%. Right off the bat, we know that'd be considered ''minorities.'' That'd clearly make the city 43.95% non-white. Within that 14.9% Latin-American, it's unclear how much is white and how much isn't.
And just because you're mixed, doesn't mean part-white ancestry shouldn't be acknowledged. Half of the 1/7 of Latin American descendants in the United States say they're clearly white. 3% says black. Probably a few percent is half black/half white, about 20% is indigenous and 20% is Meztiso. That'd mean about sixty percent of Latin Americans are of European ancestry. If you were to assume that 60% of that 15% of Milwaukee that's of ''Latino'' ancestry, that'd mean 9 out of is white and 6 isn't. And if you added that six percent to that approximate 44% - it'd mean Milwaukee is literally split white and non-white. I wouldn't say it's ''majority-minority'', unless you buy into the media's ideas.
I know this is a confusing way of looking at this, but it's necessary. This is more commonly understood internationally. If people used common sense to judge on their own, they wouldn't be so consumed into the non-integrated political categorizations we're bombared with in this country.
Yes, I know about your sensitivity to terms, so is the term "invasion" better for you? Is Mexico actually physically attacking us? No, I would think that was pretty obvious. But with 20-30 million people entering the country illegally, that to me is definitley an invasion, and in a way, yes, we are "under attack" by those who seek to reclaim what was once Mexico's.
Believe me, I'm not ''sensitive.'' I was actually serious there. I don't care what word you use. The point is - do you literally mean their is going to be some sort of conflict? What political power and money could these people have? The one's who'd be interested obviously wouldn't be citizens. Why would they immigrate to our country? What is this like Dennis the Menace? Are they just going to be nuisances for the sake of it? Why not just stay in Mexico? Technically, Latin Americans are much more integrated into the political system in this country than Asians are within their own respective percentages - but it doesn't matter either.
Who's going to fund them? You're giving mixed signals to me. First you say there is not going to be military conflict, yet you're giving indirect insinuations of an attempt to claim California and the southwest. The Mexican government doesn't want California and the southwest. They got enough citizens with enough economic problems. Would they want to deal with the nuisance of American citizens? Isn't it already illegal or highly restricted from Americans owning real estate in Mexico?
They're illegally entering (not invading - at least not in their eyes) country to allow their children to become affluent American citizens. Why is that so difficult to believe? Why do you make them out to be such menaces? Because they're walking over a line in the sand they know no one enforces to give their children a better life? No matter what those illegal immigrants think - it won't ever matter. Facts are facts. They're leaving the worst parts of Mexico and their children will become middle-class American citizens. There will be no revolution. There will be no attempt. Your theories are nice, but not realistic.
That isn't what illegal immigrants. They're afraid of the authorities, have no money and no resources. So if anyone made such a laughable claim to a place like expensive California, where exactly would this go? Nevermind the Californians who'd get a kick out of this, but those immigrants would have to set up a sovereign government - which they'd have no military or economic potential to do. You think they'd have gold and silver to back up an imaginary dollar? Even in those few losers crazy minds, what makes you believe the Mexican government would want this burden?
A slow-motion, unarmed (for the most part) invasion and takeover by sheer numerical superiority. How you people can't see it when over 10% of the nation's population is illegal and closer to 25% in the southwest is absolutely beyond me. There are 40 million illegals in America, the majority of which are from Mexico. The VAST majority of the remainder come from other nations south of Mexico.
There will be war in the streets before it's all said and done, I'll give odds on that.
Well if you put odds down on the Roulette table, I'll put even lol And I know I'll hit.
Where are you getting these statistics? (That was sarcastic - I'm sure you have a source, but I question it's integrity). Half the sources are unreliable and incompetent - including one's published by our government. If they were so aware of who's illegal, why don't they just record them? Wouldn't that be valuable? I don't believe the assertion that they're 10 percent of the United States, although I agree that it's more significant in the southwest (although not one quarter of the population and I doubt anywhere near it).
That is moving away from the point I'm making though. What makes you think this is what illegal Mexican immigrants want? Why would they want this? Even if they believed America was a mediocre place where you could just make money, why would they want to have any continual attachment to a Mexican government that neglected them so bad they left? Even if all of them don't think America is the greatest gift, maybe they'll share a lot more in common with the populace of this country.
They may be illegal today, but their babies are legal. Just another quote you guys who believe English should be the official language, ''Jus Soli'' applies in this country. Their babies are legal citizens of the United States.
They're technically as legal as an American citizen of European descent who's ancestry been here since 1776. The thing is, even if those illegal immigrants are illegal - they die off. If you don't have a good job or an on the books job, you probably have no medical insurance. How many think they'd live until the average age of 78? Plus, the older people get - it seems like they have a lot less fire in their stomach like the few ''La Raza'' people. With the possibility of extensive immigration reform, they better start their ''street battles'' soon. Even though more illegal immigrants are to come, more are to legalize, die and have American-born citizens with high fertility rates.
Believe me, I'm not ''sensitive.'' I was actually serious there. I don't care what word you use. The point is - do you literally mean their is going to be some sort of conflict? What political power and money could these people have? The one's who'd be interested obviously wouldn't be citizens. Why would they immigrate to our country? What is this like Dennis the Menace? Are they just going to be nuisances for the sake of it? Why not just stay in Mexico? Technically, Latin Americans are much more integrated into the political system in this country than Asians are within their own respective percentages - but it doesn't matter either.
Who's going to fund them? You're giving mixed signals to me. First you say there is not going to be military conflict, yet you're giving indirect insinuations of an attempt to claim California and the southwest. The Mexican government doesn't want California and the southwest. They got enough citizens with enough economic problems. Would they want to deal with the nuisance of American citizens? Isn't it already illegal or highly restricted from Americans owning real estate in Mexico?
They're illegally entering (not invading - at least not in their eyes) country to allow their children to become affluent American citizens. Why is that so difficult to believe? Why do you make them out to be such menaces? Because they're walking over a line in the sand they know no one enforces to give their children a better life? No matter what those illegal immigrants think - it won't ever matter. Facts are facts. They're leaving the worst parts of Mexico and their children will become middle-class American citizens. There will be no revolution. There will be no attempt. Your theories are nice, but not realistic.
That isn't what illegal immigrants. They're afraid of the authorities, have no money and no resources. So if anyone made such a laughable claim to a place like expensive California, where exactly would this go? Nevermind the Californians who'd get a kick out of this, but those immigrants would have to set up a sovereign government - which they'd have no military or economic potential to do. You think they'd have gold and silver to back up an imaginary dollar? Even in those few losers crazy minds, what makes you believe the Mexican government would want this burden?
I completely disagree. Mexico most certainly does want the Southwest back, that's why they encourage and even give instruction on how to sneak into this country and what rights they have once they're here. Look at the title of the thread. They don't have to use force, it's in sheer population. Once those in power, the majority of voters and the majority of military are hispanic it would take almost no effort for them to take this country, hence the concern in my first post for this thread. You believe whatever you want, and so will I, just don't infer my "theories" are "unrealistic". I look at what's happening around me and listen to what Mexican politicians, MEChA and La Raza openly admit to, and have no doubt that while not all have these plans of "reconquista", there are more than enough.
I completely disagree. Mexico most certainly does want the Southwest back, that's why they encourage and even give instruction on how to sneak into this country and what rights they have once they're here. Look at the title of the thread. They don't have to use force, it's in sheer population. Once those in power, the majority of voters and the majority of military are hispanic it would take almost no effort for them to take this country, hence the concern in my first post for this thread. You believe whatever you want, and so will I, just don't infer my "theories" are "unrealistic". I look at what's happening around me and listen to what Mexican politicians, MEChA and La Raza openly admit to, and have no doubt that while not all have these plans of "reconquista", there are more than enough.
Okay, here's the problem. You're looking at this very simply - in an American sense. Look at this quote.
''They don't have to use force, it's in sheer population. Once those in power, the majority of voters and the majority of military are hispanic it would take almost no effort for them to take this country, hence the concern in my first post for this thread. You believe whatever you want, and so will I, just don't infer my "theories" are "unrealistic".
First off, being ''Hispanic'' doesn't exist. How much have I described this? You haven't challenged any of the points I've made in any of my messages on this thread. There is no common idea. But hey, here's my plan. In 2030 - I'll go to southern California. You know - the place where people get paid like 80 grand a year, own 6 or 7 hundred thousand dollar homes or pay over 2 grand to rent them, don't really believe in god and just go through the motions of life. I'll say - hey how's the idea of leaving and going to Mexico sound? I'm sure they'll say: Me have Spanish surname, so me want to be part of Mexico.
If I hear that, I'll laugh - don't worry. What makes you think such a ''vote'' could ever exist. We do have a federal government you know. Not just that, but even though our dollar isn't great right now - it's still great compared to Mexico. If all those people voted to apart of Mexico or not apart of the United States, they'd destroy all the real estate value of their homes.
Being ''Hispanic'' is being white. Regardless of race. You have to understand that. You're talking about people who live like the typical white Americans. They make the same money, go to the same colleges and even commonly marry each other. Will there be a theory: Me part Spanish So Me Part want Mexico? lol Don't worry, regardless of how they love - they're white, they're white, they're white. Start signing the California song on the O.C. to them - because that's who they are and who they'll continue to be for now and until the world melts from global warming.
The only people who would represent such a radical philosophy would have to at least be from there. And most of them have never even heard of anything we've talked about. If you're an American citizen though and especially if you're second-generation, your foreign ties are cut. Being Mexican is no longer personal. In fact, they'll probably ridicule Mexicans and illegal immigrants like how so many typical Americans like to do.
Describe to me why you believe they'd psychologically work along these parallels. You're making very vague statements. You can't throw hard proof behind your theories. I don't know if it was you, but showing me a bull crap web-site that projects the U.S. being 30% black in 2097 (even though blacks fertility rate is almost equivalent to whites and people from Africa and the West Indies are limitedly immigrating here) doesn't count as a source.
I throw a lot of data into every statement I've made, which is why my argument is convincing. The position I have doesn't require much work though - it's just a matter of realization. I don't have to prove to people that Mexico will magically own some of the most expensive territory in North America. I probably don't even have to tell people to be rational - but I do that anyway. You're the one who has something to prove if you want to have a case - and the way that it comes off makes it sounds as if you're a creative movie writer.
''You believe whatever you want, and so will I,''
I got no problem with that. However, we're both on here spreading information. Understand that what you say is theory and not fact. I'm simply stating the status quo won't be much different than in the future. You're the one who has to prove to us why you think all this - and you lack reliable sources. You could believe what ever you want and so could I - but we'll both be living 20 to 30 years from now. Something tells me I'd be the better guy to bet on Vegas with. And I'm not even talking about what California and the southwest would be legally, but if a legitimate attempt ever occured?
Go and around and do a survey for yourself. Go to malls. Go to colleges. Go in chat rooms. Ask people of all backgrounds - including the imaginary ''Hispanic'' one you put so much emphasis on questions. Ask them if they even heard of Aztlan, Mecha, La Raza or any of that. Almost no one knows about it. Than ask if they're apart of sympathize with them? You must be in your own world if you think the average citizen or resident of the United States is so politically acknowledging and/or involved. Most know nothing - and that especially includes people my age.
Remember, we live in a big world. Get out of your little town and survey for yourself. Maybe you're around people who are a little more hostile than the general population. Or crazy. I don't know. Survey a lot of people for yourself though and you'll realize all of what I'm saying. And on February 25th, 2033, when things are exactly as I said - you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. If I'm alive and earths around, I'll personally come back here just to say I told you so lol If I'm wrong though (which I'm sure I won't be), I'll come on here and give you credit.
As usual, you wrote several paragraphs about the term "hispanic". However you want to refer to them, you got the point. You don't need to write a novel on your problem with my wording.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc0127
I throw a lot of data into every statement I've made, which is why my argument is convincing.
To whom? Many people on this forum agree with my ideas, I haven't seen one that agrees with you, so who exactly is convinced?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc0127
I got no problem with that. However, we're both on here spreading information. Understand that what you say is theory and not fact.
That's right, it's my OPINION.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc0127
I'm simply stating the status quo won't be much different than in the future.
Also an opinion, or theory, not fact just because you think so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc0127
You're the one who has to prove to us why you think all this - and you lack reliable sources.
First, I don't have to prove a damn thing to anyone. I have my own opinion, take it or leave it. Second, I have posted SEVERAL sources with evidence of Mexicans who believe exactly what I'm stating, but you have your mind made up and there's no source that would be good enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc0127
Go and around and do a survey for yourself. Go to malls. Go to colleges. Go in chat rooms. Ask people of all backgrounds - including the imaginary ''Hispanic'' one you put so much emphasis on questions. Ask them if they even heard of Aztlan, Mecha, La Raza or any of that. Almost no one knows about it. Than ask if they're apart of sympathize with them? You must be in your own world if you think the average citizen or resident of the United States is so politically acknowledging and/or involved. Most know nothing - and that especially includes people my age.
If you're so concerned, do your own survey. It's been my experience, yes EXPERIENCE, not THEORY, that an alarming number, especially youth Mexicans, believe the southwest was "stolen" from Mexico.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc0127
Remember, we live in a big world. Get out of your little town and survey for yourself. Maybe you're around people who are a little more hostile than the general population. Or crazy.
My area is by far majority hispanic, latino, or whatever your choice term is. I have more experience and knowledge of this culture than you ever will. Like I said, many do not believe in "reconquista", many assimilate and are true Americans, and many are my friends. However, TOO MANY are hostile and believe this land is theirs, and that's a fact. Nice touch insinuating I'm crazy, I think that's a borderline personal attack. By the way, I've been to 22 of the 50 states, lived in 4 of them, and been to Mexico, so I think I've met your definition of "getting out of my little town", not to mention I lived from birth to age 18 in the SF bay area with 8 million other people, not really a "little town".
Look at it this way: if they take it back, then they won't get our benefits anymore - they'll be back in Mexico!
THAT is why I feel they won't "take it back" because it would be against their own interests.
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