Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Look at it this way: if they take it back, then they won't get our benefits anymore - they'll be back in Mexico!
THAT is why I feel they won't "take it back" because it would be against their own interests.
Actually, "they" won't take it back because there's no way the U.S. would just stand back and let a country somewhere between 3rd world and 1st world take our land. Just because the Southwest (and elsewhere) is infested by illegals, doesn't make it part of Mexico. It just means they should be deported.
And yes, I say our land because they only owned it for 20 years or so and then lost it in a war to us (and we even graciously gave them money). Wars happened throughout history and most borders that exist now are a result of them.
They only want it back now because its prosperous.
I think he's a lost cause. His state of paranoia has hindered him of being open about different thoughts and perspectives.
Well, what he needs to do is give us some hard data and we'd listen. He doesn't understand why more people don't know his theory. As I said to him, for his own satisfaction - he should survey at random for yourself. No one has any idea of what he's talking about. If he's going to try to refute my argument just because he doesn't like it, he'll have to try harder than that.
Last edited by nyc0127; 02-26-2008 at 11:58 AM..
Reason: I misintrepreted who was writing a message to who.
''As usual, you wrote several paragraphs about the term "hispanic". However you want to refer to them, you got the point. You don't need to write a novel on your problem with my wording.''
My point is their is no ''them.'' You're right - I don't have to write as much as I did, but it definitely helps show why I'm thinking this way. Plus, it gives you a different pay of looking at it. If you believe in that term or the unity of people of Latin American descent - than you're both naive and gullible. Especially if you don't even question the integrity of the unity of people of Latin American descent.
Explain to me why you think people would continue to buy into your ''theories'' of annexing the southwest and expensive California over to Mexico in a post-jus soli era when so many won't be able to fluently speak Spanish. Why would these illegal Mexican immigrants want to come to the United States and have American born children? This doesn't make any sense. And sadly, most people aren't aware of anything we've talked about. Whether that be your theories of ''annexation'' and the integrity of the term ''Hispanic.'' Most people would laugh at such a notion.
''To whom? Many people on is forum agree with my ideas, I haven't seen one that agrees with you, so who exactly is convinced?''
Are you blind? Didn't one guy just say he'd give me more points if he could? Does people need to clearly spell out for you that they think your theories are crazy?
Yes, there are some people who agree with you - but none of what you told them is something they didn't already know. This thread is not well representative of our general populace in this country. Most people have no clue of anything we've talked about - and that includes people of all backgrounds. Are you denying that?
All you are doing is making vague statements and trying to get people to just on your crazy nightmares. Even if some agree with some of the base of your argument, I really doubt any are believing it to that extreme. Not just would they give themselves headaches, but it'd probably distract them from what's going on in real life.
''That's right, it's my OPINION.''
Okay, good. Than we're on the same page with that. You're ''theory'' or ''opinion'' still isn't well-supported though. You're making vague statements that are doing nothing to convince neutral parties. People that are already thinking like you, won't believe it in anymore just because of your opinions. Don't get them confused with America though. Even if it doesn't appear to be that way on here, more of America actually sees this issue rationally and thinks more like myself. Most people that think like yourself would probably stereotypically label you as some kind of anarchist or rebel. I'm sorry I don't use my creativity to make movies about this kind of thing lol Too bad for you though, because the writers aren't on strike anymore.
''Also an opinion, or theory, not fact just because you think so.''
True, but that's a fact of 2008, right? I have used hard facts to back up my argument. ''Jus soli'' and the fact that California is overwhelmingly very educated, expensive and affluent (who would want to destroy their real estate value and get paid crap - especially if many don't even speak the language of the country you propose they'd want to be apart of). Also, the fact that most people have no clue of your ''theories.'' You don't need me to tell you that. That's why I said go to a mall, chat room or what ever and interview people for yourself. They'll look at you like you got twenty heads. Most people who'd have the energy you propose would have to be young - and most my age are not politically interested nor motivated. Just like many my age who like Obama say they like ''change'', but could never tell you one thing he is going to change.
''First, I don't have to prove a damn thing to anyone.''
Um okay. So what's your purpose of telling people about your crazy ideas of expensive California being annexed to the Mexican government? Are you just writing for the same of writing because it's like taking a breath or do you even care for what you're writing about?
''I have my own opinion, take it or leave it.''
That's good for you. Your opinion isn't doing anything though. All it is doing is making you look like a ''stereotypical'' anarchist or something of that nature. You can believe what ever you want - but don't tell us that is what America thinks. They don't think like that and if you don't believe me, survey for yourself. Speak for yourself. I doubt you or the little box you know could ''annex'' California off to Mexico. Talk to more people and get more takes on this and I guarantee you're opinion will change.
''Second, I have posted SEVERAL sources with evidence of Mexicans who believe exactly what I'm stating, but you have your mind made up and there's no source that would be good enough.''
Well, a source that says America will be 30% black in 2097 (even though the country is 12.5% black now and they have near equivalent fertility rates to whites and the fact that few blacks will immigrate here) doesn't exactly sound like the most reliable resource. Your source is your brain - and that doesn't seem to be a good one. I give you credit for your creativity, but your rationality is horrible.
''If you're so concerned, do your own survey. It's been my experience, yes EXPERIENCE, not THEORY, that an alarming number, especially youth Mexicans, believe the southwest was "stolen" from Mexico.''
Well, maybe you need to get out of the town your in and see the real world for yourself. Most people have too busy lives to worry about this crap. It doesn't interest people. It might have been your experience (or experiences in nightmares) - but it hasn't been the populace of this country's. No where near it either. Plus, even for the few who do believe it was ''stolen'' - it's be very contradictory considering they voluntarily chose to come to this country (and often places that never belonged to Mexico). Most of those places ''annexed'' weren't even apart of the Mexican government for long, considering that Mexico didn't even acquire their independence from Spain until 1821. Plus, I doubt people wouldn't want to destroy their economic lives and adapt to a country that is behind ours and doesn't speak the same language as their descendants of ''jus soli.''
''My area is by far majority hispanic, latino, or whatever your choice term is. I have more experience and knowledge of this culture than you ever will.''
Where do you live? Minnesota or something like that? To you I guess, the cold and Latin America sure do have a way of starting fire lol You may have more experience with this anarchist-type thinking (not culture) than I do - because you seclude yourself to looking at the few who believe in this. You look for it. I don't. I wouldn't choose to ignore this either, but it's not like what you're proposing is the most obvious or clear thing. Don't you realize there are people who say the same exact thing about the ''Middle East'' taking over America.
A few years ago, I use to hear rednecks who I came across in Florida say that if Al Gore was president - we'd all be speaking Arabic now. Sadly, that's probably the categorization you'd be related to for thinking half of what you think of. And sadly enough, people still are more acknowledging and aware of the Middle East threat to the United States. I'm sure you could create a movie with some sort of alliance with Mexico and the Middle East though, right? lol I hope you weren't one of those people dumb enough to believe that Middle Easterners would voluntarily legally immigrate and try to camouflage (who would they be kidding?) themselves across the border.
Believe me, I've lived in New York City and New Jersey for most of my life. I've experienced a lot more culture, cultural awkwardness and other things you probably haven't. Unlike you, I could actually people of Middle Eastern descent every day and not every week or month. Where I grew up, Asian and Jewish people existed significantly. And I'm sure there were a few people with crazy theories like yourself, but typically people don't give them much attention.
''TOO MANY are hostile and believe this land is theirs, and that's a fact.''
No, it's not. Throw hard data behind it. That's your opinion and your theory. To revise your quote, you should have said ''few'' instead of ''too many.'' Maybe your definition of ''too many'' is different than mine, but if you believe residents in this country even have that much energy to be politically motivated - you're out of your mind. There are some - I agree, but they don't mean much statistical significance. However, most have no clue what you're talking about. This thread isn't a good example of this populace because all of you are informed and interested in this subject.
''Nice touch insinuating I'm crazy''
Okay, sorry if you took it that way. A personal attack? You got to be pretty timid if that's your mentality. Are you a human resource manager or something? lol Maybe I should have said what you're thinking is crazy or that your nightmares are.
''I've been to 22 of the 50 states, lived in 4 of them, and been to Mexico, so I think I've met your definition of "getting out of my little town", not to mention I lived from birth to age 18 in the SF bay area with 8 million other people, not really a "little town". ''
That's good for you. I'm happy for you. However, most of America and I still have no clue what you're talking about. I know what you think you're thinking isn't poorly intended, but people just don't understand your opinion. It's not our business too, but if you're saying ''it's fact'' that a decent amount of Mexican immigrants are looking to start a movement of annexing a significant portion of our country to a country that's much less wealthy than us - than you're invading rationally thinking America. And to make the insinuation that all ''Hispanics'' (as if they exist) would all band together is completely ridiculous too. The only idea for what you propose only applies to Mexico.
As one described on here, Mexico's southern border with Guatemala is very strict. Getting through isn't easy - so how exactly is someone from central or south America supposed to illegally immigrate here? They can't. All they could do is over-stay there visa, which also exists with Eastern Europeans, Asians and Middle Easterners. Those central and south Americans never had any involvement with Mexico and never want to have any. Why would they see themselves the same as them? No non-educated person would immigrate from a country like Colombia to Mexico - so why would they want to be apart of Mexico now? Because you tell them too? Or because of the bull theory of ''Latino unity.'' Give me a break. Especially following jus soli, your ''theories'' will just continue to lose their credibility.
Look at it this way: if they take it back, then they won't get our benefits anymore - they'll be back in Mexico!
THAT is why I feel they won't "take it back" because it would be against their own interests.
Great point. Especially economic interests. The United States is a wealthy country. Even if descendants of illegal immigrants spoke Spanish and were interest in this ''theory'', we all know money is more important those ''ideas.'' They'd destroy their real-estate value if they wanted to be apart of Mexico. As he won't understand though, he believes all ''Hispanics'' are ''united'' into the belief that Mexico is the country they want to be apart of. If that were the case - they would have immigrated to Mexico.
The question wasn't if ''Mexicans'' or Mexican descendants were the majority of our country. Although Mexicans make up a decent portion of Latin American immigrants, they'd have no change at ever coming anywhere near the majority of this country on their own. So this whole idea really wouldn't work for anyone. Plus, we have a federal government that would override the philosophy of a political loonatics.
Actually, "they" won't take it back because there's no way the U.S. would just stand back and let a country somewhere between 3rd world and 1st world take our land. Just because the Southwest (and elsewhere) is infested by illegals, doesn't make it part of Mexico. It just means they should be deported.
And yes, I say our land because they only owned it for 20 years or so and then lost it in a war to us (and we even graciously gave them money). Wars happened throughout history and most borders that exist now are a result of them.
They only want it back now because its prosperous.
Yup. I think people are undermining the power of our federal government. We're talking about the worse descendants of a middle of the line country in the world and a superpower. The southwest is not a very personal thing to Mexico. If anything, it should be more personal to Spain if we were talking about who owns what land. People will have their theories, but reality will always exist.
See what? Look at what? I don't know where you live - but New York and New Jersey probably would be a better example than a little down in New Mexico. So if I was there, I physically see someone and should assume not just that they are of Latin American descent, but than Mexican and than assume they're an illegal immigrant? Even if that all were true, most still wouldn't be aware nor interest in ''La Raza'' or any of those groups. The consensus of this country has no clue upon anything all of us have discussed.
Actually, "they" won't take it back because there's no way the U.S. would just stand back and let a country somewhere between 3rd world and 1st world take our land. Just because the Southwest (and elsewhere) is infested by illegals, doesn't make it part of Mexico. It just means they should be deported.
And yes, I say our land because they only owned it for 20 years or so and then lost it in a war to us (and we even graciously gave them money). Wars happened throughout history and most borders that exist now are a result of them.
They only want it back now because its prosperous.
It's prosperous because it's part of the U.S. That's the point - if they take it back, it won't be part of the U.S., so it would no longer be prosperous. It would be Mexico, with all their usual economic problems, and then they'd be sneaking over the border into the rest of the U.S. to get our benefits.
I KNOW they can't get it. I'm just curious as to why they'd want it, since it's against their own economic interests. They would no longer have all the U.S. goodies we give them.
I think it's past your bedtime PL. By the way having half a brain and being aware of your surroundings is not paranoia, it's having common sense, perhaps tomorrow in high school you'll learn something about that.
Personally attacking someone because of their age huh? And I have half a brain
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
re:
