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While I am still not convinced either way (I don't only read this forum) if I should be pro or against immigration legal or illegal as the line is often blurred, I often wonder if the anger towards immigrants is misdirected. There was one post claiming our country was being balkanized and maybe this is true. I can't help but wonder if corporations are the culprit for balkanizing voters in regions of our country with high immigrant populations by playing on the emotions of the "working" or "blue collar" class. I have attached a link that to the NELP which I am sure some of you will argue is pro this and liberal that however, there are some pretty compelling arguments and points regarding the current state of wages, inconsistencies in job safety and workers compensation. While the immediate anger is at illegal immigrants and the audacity of their plea for equal rights, one must take a different view (emotions aside) where labor is concerned especially for the greater whole. If we hold corporations, companies and contractors to consistent labor laws for legal and illegal we drive out the inconsistencies that are actually driving down wages and safety standards. It would be nice if energies were focused on root causes rather than tackling the effects which seem to be more attractive.
What’s the real problem? Scofflaw employers who fail to offer workers a decent wage and a safe
place to work, and an enforcement regime that takes a “see no evil” approach to labor law
violations. Weak enforcement affects all workplaces where both U.S. citizens and immigrant
workers labor side by side.
What’s the real solution? Real labor standards, coupled with vigorous enforcement of those rules – a
new kind of “employer sanction” against low-road employers who abuse all workers.
Another link to a paper expanding on this issue.
More Harm Than Good: Responding To States’ Misguided Efforts To Regulate Immigration
http://www.nelp.org/docUploads/More%20Harm%20than%20Good%20update%20082907%2Epdf (broken link)
OK so maybe the title of this thread wasn't sexy enough or imply an illegal was being beaten to death. It is amazing in how we place our energies on the effects rather than tackling and fixing the root causes of immigration and illegal immigration. If immigrant (there was no such thing as illegal immigrant at the time) mill workers can protest for fair labor (Bread and Roses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) then we put pressure and support for fair and equal treatment of laborers both legal and illegal to ensure that corporations do not take advantage of illegal immigrants and ultimately make it no longer attractive to hire illegal immigrants verses legal workers. It is obvious we will never have closed or controlled borders. In fact the trend in the world is towards open borders.
Last edited by HoustonCynic; 07-20-2008 at 01:48 AM..
Reason: typo
Illegal immigrants are the perfect distraction from America's bigger, growing problems.
They look different, speak a different language, they're "stealing our jobs", they are invaders, they are "anti-American" and "racist".
And they are very much in our presence.
The only thing most people want as far as the illegals is that they be returned or return on their own to their own country and not be allowed to come back as they please.
I think most people do believe the greedy corporations and other employers be given harsh fines and be made to pay back any tax dollars taken by their illegals.
Illegal immigrants are the perfect distraction from America's bigger, growing problems.
They look different, speak a different language, they're "stealing our jobs", they are invaders, they are "anti-American" and "racist".
And they are very much in our presence.
You're exactly right!! The issue of "illegal immigration" is nothing more than a distraction meant to deflect attention away from the structural and systematic deficiencies inherent to a Capitalistic mode of production whereby wealth is attained by way of the exploitation of workers. And nobody is in a more worse position to be exploited than "illegal Immigrants." The government is well aware of this, but has no desire whatsoever to do anything about it, because actually they work for the interests of the corporations. Instead what the government will do is pit working class groups against each other to keep them from realizing their common economic interests and therefore unifying behind those shared interests.
The problem of "illegal immigration" is a reflection of the failures of the neoliberal policies put into place by successive neoliberal administrations: Reagan, Bush(the first), Clinton, Bush(the second) and soon to be Obama. In fact you can't make a serious run for the office of the President of the US unless you are a neoliberal.
[SIZE=3]"While researching "Illegals," several people told me they used to do the "jobs Americans won't do" until local employers figured out they could get illegal aliens to work for less than half the same amount. As an example, a young landscaper in Sierra Vista, Ariz., who used to make $15 an hour 10 years ago, can't get a similar job now for more than $8 an hour. Same heat. Same difficult working conditions. Same necessary for landscapers. But with the depressed wage, Americans – who live in a country where the cost of living is miles above that of Mexico's – can't afford to take such jobs. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]It's not that he and other Americans don't want to do landscaping anymore; it's just that in heavily trafficked illegal alien environments, it doesn't pay well enough anymore. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]And that's how many "jobs Americans won't do" were created. The current administration's "guest worker" program will create more such jobs, because what employer in his or her right mind would not want to lower their labor costs? Doing so would raise profits – at least in theory – without having to do anything else."[/SIZE] [SIZE=3]http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/2/13/140946.shtml[/SIZE]
Put it this way... immigration to the U.S. is akin to winning the lottery for a lot of people from other countries... lets say the first 100 people will win the lottery and you stand right at number 72 in that line... say 100 illegal immigrants cut in front of that line and you are now number 172... would you think that is fair? Would you be pissed? So what do you say to the millions and millions of people out there waiting in line and doing it legally... when 20M to 40M illegal immigrants cut in line in front of you...? I care not about wage this and economic that... all I care is about being fair... and giving them special privileges is NOT fair.. would you be willing to sell out your ethics on being fair so that watermelons are a few cents cheaper or that you make a few dollars more??? Is that all it takes to sell out and not be fair?
I am angry at those losers who come to my nation illegally as well as the enablers (employers and do-gooders who hire them as well as kiss their collective backsides).
You're exactly right!! The issue of "illegal immigration" is nothing more than a distraction meant to deflect attention away from the structural and systematic deficiencies inherent to a Capitalistic mode of production whereby wealth is attained by way of the exploitation of workers. And nobody is in a more worse position to be exploited than "illegal Immigrants." The government is well aware of this, but has no desire whatsoever to do anything about it, because actually they work for the interests of the corporations. Instead what the government will do is pit working class groups against each other to keep them from realizing their common economic interests and therefore unifying behind those shared interests.
The problem of "illegal immigration" is a reflection of the failures of the neoliberal policies put into place by successive neoliberal administrations: Reagan, Bush(the first), Clinton, Bush(the second) and soon to be Obama. In fact you can't make a serious run for the office of the President of the US unless you are a neoliberal.
Yes, young Frederick, you are so correct! And if you truly believe what you posted and read between your lines, you can see which group is in the right.
The problem of "illegal immigration" is a reflection of the failures of the neoliberal policies put into place by successive neoliberal administrations: Reagan, Bush(the first), Clinton, Bush(the second) and soon to be Obama. In fact you can't make a serious run for the office of the President of the US unless you are a neoliberal.
Reagan was many things, but he was not a neo-liberal. Also it seems you're confusing the foreign policy ideology of neo-liberal institutionalism, with the general political ideology of neo-liberalism. They aren't the same. Bush, Clinton and Bush are neo-liberal institutionalists, even though all three had neo-conservative foreign policy and national security advisors, and even though all three supported the neo-conservative foreign policy agenda.
Obama's voting record is too sparse to allow him to be identified with a particular foreign policy or political ideology.
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