Assimilation, why it is so hard? (born, illegal immigration, law, ethic)

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by JDubsMom

I can't do anything but agree with every single word that you stated. You merely confirmed what I believe. I am very passionate about this issue. As a child I proudly marched alongside my grandmother and Dr. King during a civil rights march in Chicago. I was 4 years old when I was hosed down in the streets by the Chicago Fire Department. I had more courage at that age than the millions of adult cowards who have chosen to flee their homeland and invade another, instead of fighting for what they desire in their own country. That experience did not make me or any of my family members cowards like those who have invaded and are systematically destroying my country. We did whatever we had to do within the boundaries of the laws of this nation, in order to earn our place at America's table.

I refuse to hand my seat, my son's or his future children's seat at the table of a prosperous America to a bunch of ignorant, insolence, arrogant, non-contributory illegal aliens.

Whoa! well first of all kudos to you! for fighting for what you believe! I'm really sorry that our world was that medieval when you were 4 years old, but fortunately things have changed, and if they change it was thanks to people that instead of just accepting their faith actually did something to change it.

Racial segregation was something that should be always remembered as a shame in mankind's history and hopefully it'll be eradicated for good from the entire world one day, yet the main driving force behind it was greed, imagine how low humans fell prey of that greed in order to justify something as deaspeakable as slavery.

Yet, the enemy hasn't been beaten it just changed and adapted to a new reality, and as racism and slavery was one of the most negative aspects of American culture and history, we see history repeating (with it's differences) in this issue, why? because the root of all this mess is greed. and the worst part of it is that in both cases there was an entire system and society built to sustain and feed that machinery.

Yes indeed, I am very passionate.

That being said, I have nothing but the deepest admiration and respect for you and the truth that you tell. Thanks again for yet another great post

Well I can be very passionate as well, and I believe that well channeled, passion can be a driving force that can get the best of you, now let me tell you that I have a dream, I would like to see one day a united world with no restrictions, where any human being could live or work wherever they wanted, but for that to happen we need to change a lot of things, we need to evolve from our current state (the entire world) but the only way to do it is building brigdes of understanding, respect and goodwill between us.

You are welcome ma'am Respect!

[Mori-vivi]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

I was wondering and decided to start this thread, how come assimilation can be so hard for some, while for others is pretty natural, what are your thoughts on this?

imho the more receptive a person is the easier to asimilate that's why kids usually assimilate naturally, but let's see what others think

Assimilate to what???, America remains a very divided country, you still see a lot of communities that are dominated by one or another culture anywhere in the United States, more important they become more ethnic as time goes by, I can mention many italians, greek, russian, portuguese, etc. communities, not to mention predominatly hispanic, or african american commuunities, who are we kidding here??, do you ever see a more divided community than every sunday at church?? if it comes to assimilate to a more or less anglo white, then, what could that be, someone that behaves more like a trailer park dweller, or more suburb like.
For the hispanic immigrants the answer should be easy, assimilate with
your own community ......

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by Mori-vivi

Assimilate to what???, America remains a very divided country, you still see a lot of communities that are dominated by one or another culture anywhere in the United States, more important they become more ethnic as time goes by, I can mention many italians, greek, russian, portuguese, etc. communities, not to mention predominatly hispanic, or african american commuunities, who are we kidding here??, do you ever see a more divided community than every sunday at church?? if it comes to assimilate to a more or less anglo white, then, what could that be, someone that behaves more like a trailer park dweller, or more suburb like.
For the hispanic immigrants the answer should be easy, assimilate with
your own community ......

Now you understand why our borders were closed/locked back ca. 1920----------to force the (mostly) legal immigrants to assimilate. Quite a few Italians returned to Italy since they could not/would not become American. Good riddance.

Those restrictions were relaxed in 1965----------and, it is time to reimpose them.

[AmericanAnomie]

As far as the people who cherry-pick about illegal immigration, not acknowledging that it encourages criminality and lawlessness:

How can you possibly refute that dysfunctional countries like Mexico with hegemonic white elites and a seemingly endless supply of deplorable poverty conveniently try to encourage those who represent their heaviest economic/social burdens to come to the United States? I can only wonder how their welfare state compares to our own. At least they have PeMex to help fund it.

We have many Salvadorans and Salvadoran Americans in the mid-Atlantic area so I've tried to find out about their country, too. Some statistics claim that the rate of extreme (i.e. slum-level) poverty in E.S. is about 15% and that it would be closer to 40% if it weren't for remittances from the U.S. That's pretty staggering. They are hardly sending us their engineering and political science students (as they did in years past); now it's the most disenfranchised and desperate (and too often dissolute) who are coming here.

Many old-fashioned Marylanders love trees and yet many poor Central American immigrants cut down large shade trees as soon as they buy homes so they can tend to their lawns and corn/poultry.

Many old-fashioned Marylanders crave peaceful, quiet suburban neighborhoods and yet many recent Central American immigrants have frequent shatteringly loud, overcrowded house parties that are, granted, cross-generational (infants through forty-somethings).

I don't know how these kids study or thrive in school when the cultures they come from celebrate partying so much. I mean, I know about the work-hard/play-hard lifestyle, but this is not very convincing.

Is this the new face of Central American-style assimilation?

[boricuita]

Originally Posted by AmericanAnomie

As far as the people who cherry-pick about illegal immigration, not acknowledging that it encourages criminality and lawlessness:

How can you possibly refute that dysfunctional countries like Mexico with hegemonic white elites and a seemingly endless supply of deplorable poverty conveniently try to encourage those who represent their heaviest economic/social burdens to come to the United States? I can only wonder how their welfare state compares to our own. At least they have PeMex to help fund it.

We have many Salvadorans and Salvadoran Americans in the mid-Atlantic area so I've tried to find out about their country, too. Some statistics claim that the rate of extreme (i.e. slum-level) poverty in E.S. is about 15% and that it would be closer to 40% if it weren't for remittances from the U.S. That's pretty staggering. They are hardly sending us their engineering and political science students (as they did in years past); now it's the most disenfranchised and desperate (and too often dissolute) who are coming here.

Many old-fashioned Marylanders love trees and yet many poor Central American immigrants cut down large shade trees as soon as they buy homes so they can tend to their lawns and corn/poultry.

Many old-fashioned Marylanders crave peaceful, quiet suburban neighborhoods and yet many recent Central American immigrants have frequent shatteringly loud, overcrowded house parties that are, granted, cross-generational (infants through forty-somethings).

I don't know how these kids study or thrive in school when the cultures they come from celebrate partying so much. I mean, I know about the work-hard/play-hard lifestyle, but this is not very convincing.

Is this the new face of Central American-style assimilation?

I'm sure they're not asking you to asssimilate, like the greeks, or italian, or
russian -americans are not doing it either, if you want to enjoy a culture that's up to you, but we cherrish freedom in this country, and you bet I'm going to enjoy the culture that I please to enjoy......

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by AmericanAnomie

As far as the people who cherry-pick about illegal immigration, not acknowledging that it encourages criminality and lawlessness:

How can you possibly refute that dysfunctional countries like Mexico with hegemonic white elites and a seemingly endless supply of deplorable poverty conveniently try to encourage those who represent their heaviest economic/social burdens to come to the United States? I can only wonder how their welfare state compares to our own. At least they have PeMex to help fund it.

With due respect, the assumption that Mexico is a dysfunctional country with hegemonice white elites, is false and built upon poor information, have you ever been in Mexico? otherwise you can't have an idea of the country, other than what you read from usually biased media.

The truth is that people emigrates from Mexico the USA because the elites from both countries benefit from this, if there weren't enablers in the USA allowing them to go you wouldn't see that amount of illegal immigration.

But of course it is easier to believe that all the blame lies SOB instead of demanding some action to the USA government to get serious and take meassures that will be really effective, the elites in the USA want you to believe that Mexico is like this in order to continue benefiting from illegal immigration.

So as far as I see, this relationship between countries is what is dysfunctional and codependent, but it is easier to believe that the USA is perfect and blameless.

[cabolissa]

I just want to say that in my experience living both in Mexico and in the US, the majority (60%) of Mexicans are Mestizo (of MIXED race), not completely white or native. I keep seeing references to the population there based on overgeneralized assumptions which are simply untrue.

Demographics of Mexico - Ethnic groups

Mestizos
The largest ethnic group is the mestizos, constituting approximately 60% of Mexico's population. Mestizos are people of mixed Native American and European heritage. The most of the Mexican mestizos may be originally half Aztec & half Spanish.

Native Americans/Amerindians
Unmixed Native American peoples make up the second-largest group; official statistics put them at 10% of the population, but many believe the figure to be closer to 30%. The reason for the discrepancy is the federal government's policy of using spoken language rather than race as the basis of classification. But in Mexico, as in the United States and other countries in the Americas, most Native Americans no longer speak their native tongues. In Mexico this is partly a result of the government's own policy of cultural and linguistic assimilation, which has resulted in the "Hispanization" of many of the Native American populations.
Thus, many mestizos are in fact assimilated Native Americans, inflating the mestizo population estimate from 60% to as high as 80%. Meanwhile, the number of Native Americans continues to decline as more are assimilated and as the linguistic basis of classification remains the same.
In the states of Chiapas and Oaxaca, and in the interior of the Yucatán Peninsula, the majority of the population is indigenous. Large indigenous minorities, including the Nahua, Tarasca, and Mixtec are also present in the central regions of Mexico. In northern Mexico the indigenous are a small minority and include the Tarahumara of Chihuahua and the Yaqui and Seri of Sonora.

Europeans
About 9% of the population, mostly in Mexico City, Jalisco, Sonora, Coahuila, Tamaulipas, Nuevo León and Chihuahua and other large metropolitan areas, is of unmixed white European descent. In addition to the Spanish colonists, French settlers arrived during the Mexican Empire (19th century) and Italians during the government of Porfirio Díaz, Americans, Yugoslavs and Germans arrived in Mexico after World War I. During the 1930s many Spanish refugees fleeing the Spanish Civil War arrived, mostly in Mexico City. Polish and Russian (Guadalupe, Baja California) refugees, Ashkenazic Jews among them, also settled during the war. The Jewish immigrants joined the Sephardic community that had lived in Mexico since the Spanish Inquisition.
Also of note are colonies of Mormons, Mennonites and Molokans, mainly in the northern states of Chihuahua and Durango. British immigrants also settled, mainly in mining areas, as well as French settlers in Santa Rosalía, Baja California Sur. Some believe that the British first brought Protestantism into Mexico. Greek immigration has been important as well, especially in the state of Sinaloa and its capital Culiacán.

Middle Easterners & Asians
Mexicans of Lebanese and Turkish descent are present in huge numbers, some Chinese and Filipinos arrived from the Philippines in colonial times. During the period of Asian Exclusion from the United States in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, many Chinese, Japanese, and Korean immigrants settled in northern and western Mexico, especially Baja California. Mexicali is known for its relatively prominent concentration of people of Chinese descent. There are also Jewish Mexicans of Lebanese, Turkish or other Mediterranean descent, with common ancestral roots in Spain, and speak Ladino, which is closely related to Spanish.

Africans
Since colonial times, when thousands of Africans were brought as slaves, Mexico has had a significant number of people of black-African descent. Today Afro-Mexicans of relatively unmixed black-African ancestry, as well as Zambos and mulattos, represent only about 0.5% of the population, due to higher birth-rates amongst the other groups as well as continued immigration from Europe.
Most of Mexico's blacks live in the states of Veracruz, Oaxaca, Guerrero, and Yucatán. Major populations also exist in Mexico's larger cities, such as Mexico City, Guadalajara, Monterrey, and Tijuana. In addition to those present since the colonial era, many African-Americans seeking to escape racial discrimination in the United States during the early 20th century emigrated to Mexico.

Other Latin Americans
Mexico is also the destination for many other Latin American groups: mostly Argentines, but also Brazilians, Cubans, Colombians, and Venezuelans. The PRI governments in power for most of the 20th century had a policy of granting asylum to fellow Latin Americans fleeing political persecution in their home countries.
Demographics of Mexico: Encyclopedia II - Demographics of Mexico - Ethnic groups
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...orld-factbook/

[AmericanAnomie]

Boricuita--does that handle mean you have ties to P.R.?

Americans also cherish personal responsibility and mutual respect. This isn't a liberal/libertarian anarchy (yet).

My question is, why don't Central Americans take their work ethic and spirit and political awareness and use it to reform/transform their native countries? Why are they so civically disengaged and apathetic to the point of hostility towards those that work for community unity and involvement? I've seen it time and again, particularly with the "La Raza" crowd. Why do you wave your Central American flags and bash the U.S. and then you let your countries go to ruin (and blame us for it in the process)? I just can't understand it.

[AmericanAnomie]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

With due respect, the assumption that Mexico is a dysfunctional country with hegemonice white elites, is false and built upon poor information, have you ever been in Mexico? otherwise you can't have an idea of the country, other than what you read from usually biased media.

Which parts of Mexico do you recommend? I have family that lived in Mexico City in the 1970s and they had a love-hate relationship with Mexico. They loved Oaxaca, the indian culture, the bohemian artistic colonies, etc. They hated the corruption and vice and culture of machismo.

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

The truth is that people emigrates from Mexico the USA because the elites from both countries benefit from this, if there weren't enablers in the USA allowing them to go you wouldn't see that amount of illegal immigration.

I have a love-hate relationship with the U.S. I completely agree that many American elites have shamelessly exploited this workforce for their convenience and self-enrichment. I have never denied that and I have personally berated construction contractors who have openly bragged about the depressed wages in their field and how they are wealthy enough to retire in their forties, etc.

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

But of course it is easier to believe that all the blame lies SOB instead of demanding some action to the USA government to get serious and take meassures that will be really effective, the elites in the USA want you to believe that Mexico is like this in order to continue benefiting from illegal immigration.

No, I call b---s--t on both sides of the border.

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

So as far as I see, this relationship between countries is what is dysfunctional and codependent, but it is easier to believe that the USA is perfect and blameless.

I never said that. But many people on this board were white-washing the less palatable issues here. I put a hell of a lot of blame on the past half dozen or so U.S. administrations (and the lobbies they answered to) in engineering our current mess.

So are you an American expat, a bi-national Mexican-American / American-Mexican, or what? How do you make it around there--do you have enough status / cash flow to be reasonably secure and happy?

[AmericanAnomie]

Very fascinating, cabolissa, thanks for the educational info on demographics.

I remember noticing one day that a lot of Central American accordion music reminded me of polka music. Somebody once told me that central/eastern European cultural influences and other infusions account for some of these similarities. In Chicago many formerly working-class Polish ethnic enclaves are becoming more and more Mexican/Chicano so I'll bet there's a lot of interesting fusion going on there. Maybe even a fair amount of Polish-Mexican dating/intermarriage, reminiscent of Jewish-Italian and similar melting pot ethnic mixing in NYC boroughs.