Why I am a liberal/lefty who is AGAINST illegal immgration and amnesty for them. (illegally, healthcare)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You do realize it is possible to be both emotional and factual, do you not?
True, but that's not the case in this situation. Oh, if you see a guy with my "job" he stole...can you tell him to return it to me? Plus, if you see the mother going to the clinic on my dime, tell her that I tracked down every single dollar and that she owes me $12.13. I almost forgot, if you go into a grocery store make sure to tell the translator that works that he is a cool guy and thanks. It makes it easier since none of the workers speak English and it was hard for me to obtain goods and services in Southern California since most immigrants don't speak English.
Obviously we know that jobs aren't stolen. We know that services are beneficial to a population. We know we don't know exactly what percentage of our taxes are going to illegal immigrants (we know that there is much corruption and waste). We know that many immigrants speak English (or are learning), maybe not as well as you and I, but well enough to get things done.
Yet, your side says things are known truths. That most jobs are going to illegal immigrants. That we are taxed to death because of illegal immigrants (not wars, recession). That they don't want to speak English...ever. So your solution is to create a quasi military border that would cost a ridiculous amount and deport all illegals (how would we find them?)
There are some facts, but emotions dictate a majority of the arguments...not facts.
To be blunt: the hell with the Third World till they start taking personal responsibility for their colossal failures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy
Wow, clearly you know a lot about the third world!!! I think that if it were that simple (no outside influences) that this would have been done already. No offense, but this has got to be one of the dumber views that this nation has concerning the third world.
I have to agree with ArizonaBear on this one. Since the 1950s and 1960s there have been plenty of formerly under-developed countries that got their act together and became highly successful, these include, Greece, Cyprus, Singapore, Taiwan, Barbados, Chile, Brunei, Trinidad and Tobago and so on and to a lesser extent places like Malaysia, Brazil etc. A lot of places however, just don't have their act together and will not get it together no matter what we do or do not do.
As to immigration I think its called illegal immigration for reason and the best solution would be to just start enforcing our laws....Not doing this is not fair to people like my Aunt who learned English, did all the paperwork, payed the fees, and took the citizenship tests to become legal US citizens.
True, but that's not the case in this situation. Oh, if you see a guy with my "job" he stole...can you tell him to return it to me? Plus, if you see the mother going to the clinic on my dime, tell her that I tracked down every single dollar and that she owes me $12.13. I almost forgot, if you go into a grocery store make sure to tell the translator that works that he is a cool guy and thanks. It makes it easier since none of the workers speak English and it was hard for me to obtain goods and services in Southern California since most immigrants don't speak English.
Obviously we know that jobs aren't stolen. We know that services are beneficial to a population. We know we don't know exactly what percentage of our taxes are going to illegal immigrants (we know that there is much corruption and waste). We know that many immigrants speak English (or are learning), maybe not as well as you and I, but well enough to get things done.
Yet, your side says things are known truths. That most jobs are going to illegal immigrants. That we are taxed to death because of illegal immigrants (not wars, recession). That they don't want to speak English...ever. So your solution is to create a quasi military border that would cost a ridiculous amount and deport all illegals (how would we find them?)
There are some facts, but emotions dictate a majority of the arguments...not facts.
Here's a fact.
Quote:
According to the Pew Hispanic Center, 49 percent of illegal immigrants are high school dropouts, compared with 25 percent of legal immigrants, and only 9 percent of native-born U.S. citizens.
Here's another one. Our very own homegrown HS dropouts cost us more in taxes than they pay into the system. Why on earth would the situation for illegals be any different? Having millions of people here who are never going to carry their own weight benefits the US not one iota.
Quote:
The report goes on to note: "Americans without a high school diploma have considerably lower earning power and job opportunities in today's workforce. Over a working lifetime from ages 18-64, high school dropouts are estimated to earn $400,000 less than those that graduated from high school. For males, the lifetime earnings loss is nearly $485,000 and exceeds $500,000 in many large states. Due to their lower lifetime earnings and other sources of market incomes, dropouts will contribute far less in federal, state and local taxes than they will receive in cash benefits, in-kind transfers and correctional costs. Over their lifetimes, this will impose a net fiscal burden on the rest of society.
'High school dropout crisis' continues in U.S., study says - CNN.com (http://tinyurl.com/y8reg4q - broken link)
[quote=Randomstudent;11005176]I have to agree with ArizonaBear on this one. Since the 1950s and 1960s there have been plenty of formerly under-developed countries that got their act together and became highly successful, these include, Greece, Cyprus, Singapore, Taiwan, Barbados, Chile, Brunei, Trinidad and Tobago and so on and to a lesser extent places like Malaysia, Brazil etc. A lot of places however, just don't have their act together and will not get it together no matter what we do or do not do.
With the exception of Singapore and the two island nations...the other nations were not heavily colonized. Yes, Cyprus was a former British territory, but it was not subjected to the same treatment as say Ghana. African nations recieved the lowest priority of funding during the colonial era. So with lumping clashing ethnic groups, exploiting cheap labor, human trafficking, and not providing adaquate infrastructure, i'd say that colonialism did make a significant impact. Not a positive one I might add. I agree that corruption is ramapant, but you do have to look at how these nations got there.
As to immigration I think its called illegal immigration for reason and the best solution would be to just start enforcing our laws....Not doing this is not fair to people like my Aunt who learned English, did all the paperwork, payed the fees, and took the citizenship tests to become legal US citizens.
My mom and I are immigrants (okay, technically I was born a dual citizen). I think that progress should occur, not regression. It's not a fraternity. The fees are EXTREMELY high now. And frankly, we should provide alternative methods of legalization to combat the problem instead of focusing how to chase people out because they didn't come via the same exact methods we did. That presents an exceptional problem to the youth who may not have known they were illegal.
Here's another one. Our very own homegrown HS dropouts cost us more in taxes than they pay into the system. Why on earth would the situation for illegals be any different? Having millions of people here who are never going to carry their own weight benefits the US not one iota.
'High school dropout crisis' continues in U.S., study says - CNN.com (http://tinyurl.com/y8reg4q - broken link)
Dropout rates are actually hard to track, especially in the illegal immigrant community. There are high rates of transfer and many are considered "dropouts" when in fact they are not. It's not east to accurately get a picture of high school dropout rates.
With that said, then logically we would have to try to combat high school dropouts in general by providing the means of obtaining a good education. Money would be better spent on this than trying to build walls and get the army on the border.
True, but that's not the case in this situation. Oh, if you see a guy with my "job" he stole...can you tell him to return it to me? Plus, if you see the mother going to the clinic on my dime, tell her that I tracked down every single dollar and that she owes me $12.13. I almost forgot, if you go into a grocery store make sure to tell the translator that works that he is a cool guy and thanks. It makes it easier since none of the workers speak English and it was hard for me to obtain goods and services in Southern California since most immigrants don't speak English.
Obviously we know that jobs aren't stolen. We know that services are beneficial to a population. We know we don't know exactly what percentage of our taxes are going to illegal immigrants (we know that there is much corruption and waste). We know that many immigrants speak English (or are learning), maybe not as well as you and I, but well enough to get things done.
Yet, your side says things are known truths. That most jobs are going to illegal immigrants. That we are taxed to death because of illegal immigrants (not wars, recession). That they don't want to speak English...ever. So your solution is to create a quasi military border that would cost a ridiculous amount and deport all illegals (how would we find them?)
There are some facts, but emotions dictate a majority of the arguments...not facts.
Your first paragraph is an affront to every citizen of this country who has in fact been displaced by cheap illegal labor. How can you be so flippant when discussing your so-called fellow Americans? It appears that the pro-illegal crowd only has compassion for foreign interlopers. How sad.
Dropout rates are actually hard to track, especially in the illegal immigrant community. There are high rates of transfer and many are considered "dropouts" when in fact they are not. It's not east to accurately get a picture of high school dropout rates.
With that said, then logically we would have to try to combat high school dropouts in general by providing the means of obtaining a good education. Money would be better spent on this than trying to build walls and get the army on the border.
You are missing the point.
"Having millions of people here who are never going to carry their own weight benefits the US not one iota."
The immigration system of any country is based on what is best for that country and it's citizens. The duty of the Canadian immigration system is to handle immigration in a way that benefits both Canada and Canadian citizens. The immigration systems of Japan, Greece, Brazil and even Mexico are established on the same basic principles. The US is not obligated to take in millions of people who have gamed the system, have nothing to offer us and are always going to be a burden.
I have to agree with ArizonaBear on this one. Since the 1950s and 1960s there have been plenty of formerly under-developed countries that got their act together and became highly successful, these include, Greece, Cyprus, Singapore, Taiwan, Barbados, Chile, Brunei, Trinidad and Tobago and so on and to a lesser extent places like Malaysia, Brazil etc. A lot of places however, just don't have their act together and will not get it together no matter what we do or do not do.
With the exception of Singapore and the two island nations...the other nations were not heavily colonized. Yes, Cyprus was a former British territory, but it was not subjected to the same treatment as say Ghana. African nations recieved the lowest priority of funding during the colonial era. So with lumping clashing ethnic groups, exploiting cheap labor, human trafficking, and not providing adaquate infrastructure, i'd say that colonialism did make a significant impact. Not a positive one I might add. I agree that corruption is ramapant, but you do have to look at how these nations got there.
As to immigration I think its called illegal immigration for reason and the best solution would be to just start enforcing our laws....Not doing this is not fair to people like my Aunt who learned English, did all the paperwork, payed the fees, and took the citizenship tests to become legal US citizens.
My mom and I are immigrants (okay, technically I was born a dual citizen). I think that progress should occur, not regression. It's not a fraternity. The fees are EXTREMELY high now. And frankly, we should provide alternative methods of legalization to combat the problem instead of focusing how to chase people out because they didn't come via the same exact methods we did. That presents an exceptional problem to the youth who may not have known they were illegal.
Yes they were...Chile was a long time Spanish colony and Greece for much of its modern and early modern history was a divided between, the Ottoman Empire and various Italian city states. Cyprus along with Greece had been subject to Ottoman and latter British possession as well and fought a long civil war to rid them selves of British rule. Brazil was also heavily colonized as was Malaysia by Portugal and Britain respectively. Taiwan and South Korea were heavily colonized by Japan.
As to Africa in general it is worse then the rest of the world, but relatively speaking the same situation applies there. There are some place in Africa like the Cape Verde Is. and Botswana, which have their act together relative to the rest of Africa are getting better and other places like the DROC and the Central African Republic that don't and aren't.
Obviously the planet has an endless supply of Peasants to send us. We should continue on our path. (head smack).
the head smack point being mexico is out of poor people and if we do one more amnesty just one more everything be alright?
thats strange i was just there that is not what i was seeing at all.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
