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Yeah, agreed. I'm not going to argue the morals of people that break laws. But the fact is, they are here, and until that changes, we are going to have to deal with them if we like it or not.
Yes, just like we have to deal with murderers, robbers and rapists..
He stated a simple fact of economics...if the wages overall are lower, thus those that want to compete need to take lower wages. It really isn't too hard of a concept. BTW, where did you go to school?
And that is all that illegals are contributing to American society...dragging it down to third-world status.
You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .
Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.
Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".
Ready? Now pay attention...
Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.
Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.
Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200..00.
Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year.
Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.
Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.
Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.
Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.
Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.
Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.
Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home .
Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.
Anyone who votes for or supports any politician that supports illegals...is part of the problem!
Wow...great lengths to make your point. Forgot to mention the millions of Illegals that pay SSN, Federal Tax and the rest and never receive any of that back. You and I get get our refunds...they don't. The federal Gov't has always turn its back on all this money...why? You answer that.
Since you have proven in this theory of yours, that these illegals - many with families and established lives here as you well mentioned - don't pay their fair share. That's why we need to put them on a path to becoming legal, coming out of the dark, paying taxes. If you for one second think they are going to disappear, you are sadly mistaken and fooling yourself. We have millions of people here already with lives and families continue to live in the dark. Our government needs all these folks for tax revenue. Might as well...or continue to be as we are...with no revenue. Remember....these folks aren't going anywhere!
Wow...great lengths to make your point. Forgot to mention the millions of Illegals that pay SSN, Federal Tax and the rest and never receive any of that back. You and I get get our refunds...they don't. The federal Gov't has always turn its back on all this money...why? You answer that.
Since you have proven in this theory of yours, that these illegals - many with families and established lives here as you well mentioned - don't pay their fair share. That's why we need to put them on a path to becoming legal, coming out of the dark, paying taxes. If you for one second think they are going to disappear, you are sadly mistaken and fooling yourself. We have millions of people here already with lives and families continue to live in the dark. Our government needs all these folks for tax revenue. Might as well...or continue to be as we are...with no revenue. Remember....these folks aren't going anywhere!
Consider what they don't get back as payment for the social services they receive. They are more than likely working under a fake or stolen SS number anyway which is a felony.
No, what we need to do is implement e-verify across the board and without jobs most will self-deport. Many have already left because of our bad economy so that shoots your theory down that "they ain't going nowhere". Once they are gone our government will be able to collect these tax revenues from Americans who will take their vacated jobs.
I don't see any of them living in the dark. They are quite visible everywhere.
Wow...great lengths to make your point. Forgot to mention the millions of Illegals that pay SSN, Federal Tax and the rest and never receive any of that back. You and I get get our refunds...they don't. The federal Gov't has always turn its back on all this money...why? You answer that.
Since you have proven in this theory of yours, that these illegals - many with families and established lives here as you well mentioned - don't pay their fair share. That's why we need to put them on a path to becoming legal, coming out of the dark, paying taxes. If you for one second think they are going to disappear, you are sadly mistaken and fooling yourself. We have millions of people here already with lives and families continue to live in the dark. Our government needs all these folks for tax revenue. Might as well...or continue to be as we are...with no revenue. Remember....these folks aren't going anywhere!
No, that is not the solution, that is a means to a terrible end. Get rid of the incentives(work, anchor baby) and they will go back from where they came, all on their own. Penalize the employers, with long prison sentences, massive fines and seizure of all assets.
I don't blame the illegals for coming here. I blame the greedy employers that will hire them, knowing it is illegal to do so.
No, that is not the solution, that is a means to a terrible end. Get rid of the incentives(work, anchor baby) and they will go back from where they came, all on their own. Penalize the employers, with long prison sentences, massive fines and seizure of all assets.
I don't blame the illegals for coming here. I blame the greedy employers that will hire them, knowing it is illegal to do so.
I blame both parties. One can't blame the bank robber without also blaming the one driving the get-away car (analogy).
"Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200..00.
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00." -------------------------------------------------------------------
Can they be eligible without papers?
I thought illegal residents needed to be "legal" residents in order to be eligible for food stamps and welfare.
Can Illegals receive food stamps in California?
Do you people have different laws over there...? Here in Fla you must be a U.S. citizen in order to receive food stamps and welfare. (Not even a green card holder, you MUST BE a U.S. Citizen)
Last edited by Eduardo983; 11-10-2009 at 07:37 AM..
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