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View Poll Results: Do you like this idea?
Yes, absolutely 10 13.16%
I think it would be good 4 5.26%
Never, it would be terrible! 58 76.32%
Not sure 4 5.26%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-02-2010, 12:04 PM
 
335 posts, read 329,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Yet, much of the sentiment of anti-illegal activists are rooted in a sense of American cultural superiority and at times a sense of White racial superiority.


Much of the sentiment of pro-illegal activists are rooted in a sense of Mexican cultural superiority and at times a sense of Latino racial superiority.
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Old 01-02-2010, 12:16 PM
 
14,306 posts, read 13,328,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
Much of the sentiment of pro-illegal activists are rooted in a sense of Mexican cultural superiority and at times a sense of Latino racial superiority.
The problem is that these illegals are exercising their cultural and racial superiority on "our" soil. Every nation's citizens has a right to protect the native culture and borders of one's own country. That doesn't equate to a sense of superiority.
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Old 01-02-2010, 12:18 PM
 
2,857 posts, read 6,729,311 times
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You forget that open borders would also work to our advantage. There is money to be made in Mexico for motivated entrepreneurs. Eventually Mexico would prosper and that would solve the illegal immigration problems.
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Old 01-02-2010, 01:26 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,205 posts, read 2,538,134 times
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I would hope any pro-American politcal enthusiast would see this poll and notice no one wants criminal illegals in America. My votes will certainly be geared toward like minded Americans seeking election.
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Old 01-02-2010, 02:41 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,803 posts, read 8,754,246 times
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That1guy:
Quote:
The vast majority of illegal immigrants are Hispanic (80-85%). Not to mention other ethnic based groups have collaborated with the aformentioned groups (implying a lack of hierarchy). Yet, much of the sentiment of anti-illegal activists are rooted in a sense of American cultural superiority and at times a sense of White racial superiority.
Okay...let me see if I have this straight....it's OKAY for them to feel as if they are racially superior and advocate for only Latino illegal immigrants because the sheer, overwhelming number of illegal aliens are Latino....alrighty then, well that doesn't smack of ethnocentricity in the least.

I've got news for you buddy. Your misconception of the anti-illegal immigration base would be laughable if it weren't so patently untrue. You do realize that "white" is not a so-called race, don't you? People who are against the crime of illegal immigration come in a rainbow of ethnicities--so which of these particular cultures would you pinpoint as "American"?

The vast majority of those in this country who are against illegal immigration do not feel that way because of some supposed sense of cultural superiority. They are against illegal immigration because it is......ILLEGAL! And, I would venture, most don't care whether the illegal immigrant is Latino, Irish, Kenyan, or Lilliputian. They are here illegally and not only that, but they are here illegally, working jobs that most unemployed Americans would do in a heartbeat for a living wage. So, if you continue to advocate their presence in this country, you do so in the spirit of a wink and a nod toward indentured servitude based upon geographical origin, as well as presenting to the rest of us, a big ol' middle finger to the massive numbers of unemployed Americans in this country.

As for the rest of your post, it really doesn't make much sense in the terms of practicality. You think we can base reform on some sort of a Star Trek type civilization where war and inequality have been conquered on Earth. I'm afraid that's a long way off and to propose changing our way of thinking about change as if it had already occurred simply smacks of naivete.
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:30 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,911,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
Much of the sentiment of pro-illegal activists are rooted in a sense of Mexican cultural superiority and at times a sense of Latino racial superiority.
Not really, no...
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:47 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,911,130 times
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Okay...let me see if I have this straight....it's OKAY for them to feel as if they are racially superior (this is where you mention racist Hispanics) and advocate for only Latino illegal immigrants because the sheer, overwhelming number of illegal aliens are Latino....alrighty then, well that doesn't smack of ethnocentricity in the least.

Didn't say that. In fact, there are MULTIPLE examples of such groups working with other ethnic based groups. I personally don't like groups based on ethnicity. However, when African American clubs, Asian American, and Hispanic American organizations ROUTINELY cooperate and have cosponser events...this doesn't really imply a sense of superiority.

I've got news for you buddy. Your misconception of the anti-illegal immigration base would be laughable if it weren't so patently untrue. You do realize that "white" is not a so-called race, don't you? People who are against the crime of illegal immigration come in a rainbow of ethnicities--so which of these particular cultures would you pinpoint as "American"?

White is not a race? This is one of the dumbest comments I've read. See, technically there is no such thing as race. However, I know that's not what you mean since you mentioned Hispanics were racist (Hispanic is not a race). That's why your sentence is dumb. White is a race (however, race is really a social construct).

Notice I said "some". There is an element of White supremacy in your group. Obviously not all. Yet, it does seem to have a higher percentage of racists than the general population.

I'm of the stance that America is comprimised of multiple communities. However, the typical anti-illegal sentiment is that there is an American culture. Read some of the posts on this site.

The vast majority of those in this country who are against illegal immigration do not feel that way because of some supposed sense of cultural superiority. They are against illegal immigration because it is......ILLEGAL! And, I would venture, most don't care whether the illegal immigrant is Latino, Irish, Kenyan, or Lilliputian. They are here illegally and not only that, but they are here illegally, working jobs that most unemployed Americans would do in a heartbeat for a living wage. So, if you continue to advocate their presence in this country, you do so in the spirit of a wink and a nod toward indentured servitude based upon geographical origin, as well as presenting to the rest of us, a big ol' middle finger to the massive numbers of unemployed Americans in this country.

Didn't say that they did. Simply out of ignorance and fear mongering. Illegal immigrants have a higher unemployment rate than citizens. So how are they "stealing" jobs?

The problem wasn't the illegal immigrants, but rather how we structured our economy. Indentured servitude? Geez...

As for the rest of your post, it really doesn't make much sense in the terms of practicality. You think we can base reform on some sort of a Star Trek type civilization where war and inequality have been conquered on Earth. I'm afraid that's a long way off and to propose changing our way of thinking about change as if it had already occurred simply smacks of naivete.

It's like talking to a wall...obviously it's not happening any time soon. However, these are ideals we must strive for. It's simply that if we continue our path this way and allow those that should be held accountable off the hook, things will only get worse.

What's truly impractical is continuing in the same way we are. We can't sustain our current way of life. I think the practical thing to do is try to make reform that slowly lessens the wealth gap. What's wrong with that? That afterall is the driving force behind illegal immigration, our shirnking middle class, and all the examples you provided. That's one of the root causes behind much of our social ills.
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:15 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,564,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes View Post
Interesting, most of the waves of immigrants, italians, germans, russians came over here "without papers" the vast majority were let in anyway. It does seem that the US is selective about which group they choose to hassle, almost all groups come here for the same reasons, a better life, education for their children, better medical care, work. Somehow being Mexican makes it different, even though they are arriving in droves to work for, essentially, slave wages.
150 years ago, many immigrants did arrive with less 'paperwork' than today. Not NO paperwork, but less. They arrived into a society which 'hazed' them, 'harrassed' them, and pressured them to drop their 'foreign' ways and assimilate; most gladly did so.

At that time in history, Mexicans could literally 'walk in'...no questions asked. Some were already here; others, those who 'walked in', and decided to stay, did so. Today, their descendants are Americans.

Other Mexicans stayed home. Today, their descendants are called 'Mexicans', and they have no legal right to be here, unless they go through proper channels. Many do so, and they are called then 'immigrants'; they usually go on to become naturalized American citizens. Those who come here outside 'legal channels' are called illegal aliens (as opposed to legal aliens).

So there you have it, in simple terms...American citizens...(they were BORN here); Immigrants (they came here, the proper way); and illegal aliens (they came here outside legal channels; they have no 'claim' on the place.

If this is too much to comprehend, it shouldn't be. If this is too 'selective', you need to find some less-selective society. If this is 'hassle', you apparently haven't read about what happened to earlier immigrants, even legal ones. Now THAT was 'hassle'.
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:16 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
18,480 posts, read 15,272,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
What's truly impractical is continuing in the same way we are. We can't sustain our current way of life. I think the practical thing to do is try to make reform that slowly lessens the wealth gap. What's wrong with that? That afterall is the driving force behind illegal immigration, our shirnking middle class, and all the examples you provided. That's one of the root causes behind much of our social ills.
I'm confused here. Are you for lessening the wealth gap between Mexico and America? Within the USA? Both?

If you mean lessening the wealth gap between the two countries, well, then you end up with much bigger problems than the illegals. If you mean within the USA, well, that is a good strategy. If done fairly, it would be great for our economy. If you are for both, you will find that they are contradictory goals.
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:19 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,911,130 times
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I'm confused here. Are you for lessening the wealth gap between Mexico and America? Within the USA? Both?

Ideally both.

If you mean lessening the wealth gap between the two countries, well, then you end up with much bigger problems than the illegals. If you mean within the USA, well, that is a good strategy. If done fairly, it would be great for our economy. If you are for both, you will find that they are contradictory goals.

Lessening the wealth gap in both nations will lead to more problems? Please explain.
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