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its a good thing that most people do not want it amended (sorry this forum is not representative of the US)
I would bet that a majority of Americans would be in favor of a modification that simply stated that the automatic citizenship status only occurs if born to parents who are here legally.
Im not for illegal immigrants; I want them to go through citizenship the correct way, by getting a visa or similar, working here, paying taxes and go through the naturalization process. My best friend did it, her family did it and they are all the more happy because of it.
What I find hilarious is that I find those who were once immigrants and have gained citizenship lawfully and legally, have a more patriotic sense to America, than those who were born here, who show nothing more than hateful remarks and racism against immigrants in general.
Any amendment to the 14th would turn the country into turmoil. where people who were once on the way to becoming a citizen can now no longer qualify.
Again, please prove your assertion that native born Americans are less patriotic than legal immigrants. Most of us do not make hateful remarks or are racists against legal immigrants. Illegal aliens do not qualify as "immigrants" either.
How would re-interpreting the 14th put this country in turmoil? If someone is a legal immigrant and on their way to becoming a citizen how would changing the 14th so that children of illegal aliens are not "instant" citizens at birth change that? On what basis would they be disqualified? You're not making an sense here.
Again, please prove your assertion that native born Americans are less patriotic than legal immigrants. Most of us do not make hateful remarks or are racists against legal immigrants. Illegal aliens do not qualify as "immigrants" either.
actually illegal aliens are also called illegal immigrants so that negates your argument.
they are immigrants whether you like it or not.
As for my assertion, that is what I've been able to experience. Having grown up in Hawaii, and having classmates who were mostly immigrants (not born here) and having parents who were not born in the US, I find that most of them are heck a lot more respective to the citizenship issue than those who have been born here, and are afforded citizenship through birth.
Several of my classmates through my years have gone on to become naturalized citizens, and I can remember how proud they were to take the oath of citizenship. One wanted to complete it in time before he entered military service upon graduation from High School.
Its through my experience, since I grew up around mostly immigrant, immigrant families and had many friends who were naturalized citizens.
Quote:
How would re-interpreting the 14th put this country in turmoil? If someone is a legal immigrant and on their way to becoming a citizen how would changing the 14th so that children of illegal aliens are not "instant" citizens at birth change that? On what basis would they be disqualified? You're not making an sense here.
Illegal immigants are here just the same as regular immigrants; one did it officially, the other just wanted to be here.
How do you determine whether or not they should be afforded citizenship status to their children based on their status as an immigrant.
As the Supreme Court has already ruled in Wong Kim Ark, the citizenship status of the parents have no bearing on the child. An illegal immigrant status has no bearing on the citizenship status of their child born here.
its a good thing that the 14th Amendment makes no distinction and it should remain as such.
The 14th Amendment will not be changed or amended; not after 140 years worth of case law quoting it and using it as a basis to establish citizenship status for numerous immigrants, and EVEN illegal immigrants who have fought against the US for recognition.
Polls here will not determine its fate; its up to your Congress person to initiate a change and propose an amendment which means a Constitutional Congress will have to convene in order to do so.
But, of course none of them will, because it will be political suicide to change 140 years of established law that has granted equality to every person of any race, sex and immigrant status in the US.
By asking in changing the amendment or proposing to do so, you are essentially taking away the equality guarantee as proposed in the amendment.
actually illegal aliens are also called illegal immigrants so that negates your argument.
they are immigrants whether you like it or not.
As for my assertion, that is what I've been able to experience. Having grown up in Hawaii, and having classmates who were mostly immigrants (not born here) and having parents who were not born in the US, I find that most of them are heck a lot more respective to the citizenship issue than those who have been born here, and are afforded citizenship through birth.
Several of my classmates through my years have gone on to become naturalized citizens, and I can remember how proud they were to take the oath of citizenship. One wanted to complete it in time before he entered military service upon graduation from High School.
Its through my experience, since I grew up around mostly immigrant, immigrant families and had many friends who were naturalized citizens.
Illegal immigants are here just the same as regular immigrants; one did it officially, the other just wanted to be here.
How do you determine whether or not they should be afforded citizenship status to their children based on their status as an immigrant.
As the Supreme Court has already ruled in Wong Kim Ark, the citizenship status of the parents have no bearing on the child. An illegal immigrant status has no bearing on the citizenship status of their child born here.
its a good thing that the 14th Amendment makes no distinction and it should remain as such.
The 14th Amendment will not be changed or amended; not after 140 years worth of case law quoting it and using it as a basis to establish citizenship status for numerous immigrants, and EVEN illegal immigrants who have fought against the US for recognition.
Polls here will not determine its fate; its up to your Congress person to initiate a change and propose an amendment which means a Constitutional Congress will have to convene in order to do so.
But, of course none of them will, because it will be political suicide to change 140 years of established law that has granted equality to every person of any race, sex and immigrant status in the US.
By asking in changing the amendment or proposing to do so, you are essentially taking away the equality guarantee as proposed in the amendment.
No, they aren't! They are illegal aliens and that is the correct terminology according to our government. Don't try your PC langauge on me. It won't cut it with me.
So you know a few legal immigrants and/or naturalized citizens and you formed your opinion about their patriotism vs the majority of native born Americans from that? Sounds like you are someone with an agenda who hasn't done their homework.
"How do you determine whether or not they should be afforded citizenship status to their children based on their status as an immigrant"
Eh? I haven't a clue what you are trying to say with this statement.
Don't hold your breath that the 14th won't be changed. Why would you as an American want children of illegal aliens to gain citizenship by the illegal actions of the parents? What kind of logic and patriotism is that?
Equality in this country does not include the illegal parents giving birth on our soil.
Any politican who pushes the re-interpretation of the 14th will be a hero just like Gov. Brewer is in Arizona. They will be assuring a political career rather than committing political suicide. Do dream on though.
As for my assertion, that is what I've been able to experience. Having grown up in Hawaii, and having classmates who were mostly immigrants (not born here) and having parents who were not born in the US, I find that most of them are heck a lot more respective to the citizenship issue than those who have been born here, and are afforded citizenship through birth.
Several of my classmates through my years have gone on to become naturalized citizens, and I can remember how proud they were to take the oath of citizenship. One wanted to complete it in time before he entered military service upon graduation from High School.
Its through my experience, since I grew up around mostly immigrant, immigrant families and had many friends who were naturalized citizens.
Illegal immigants are here just the same as regular immigrants; one did it officially, the other just wanted to be here.
Your actually going to compare little Hawaii, to the lower 48.
and Racist Mexicans to the polite and respectful Japanese?
I would bet that a majority of Americans would be in favor of a modification that simply stated that the automatic citizenship status only occurs if born to parents who are here legally.
A simple majority will not mater, you need at least 3/4 of the people to be for it...
A simple majority will not mater, you need at least 3/4 of the people to be for it...
The American public would not be allowed to vote on it. It would have to be an act of Congress and ratified by the SC. There is such a bill pending in congress now.
The American public would not be allowed to vote on it. It would have to be an act of Congress and ratified by the SC. There is such a bill pending in congress now.
my meaning is that to amend the constitution takes 2/3 the members of both houses of congress to propose the wording of the amendment, then it is voted yes by 3/5 of all the state legislatures[30 states of 50] to ratify the amendment...way more that a simple majority of the people. more like 3/4.
Last edited by 1751texan; 05-25-2010 at 03:38 PM..
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