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Reading a forum on the issues Illinois faces is like reading literal garbage. For anyone that doesn’t know this, ALL fifty states have issues. New Jersey, for example is even worse for taxes. Yet, the state ranks eleventh in population. And I can say for certain I haven’t seen the same amount of bickering on New Jersey forums that I have seen here. Forgive me if I overlooked it. I really don’t see the issue. Don’t give us BS that you have vested interests in the state like family, friends, jobs etc. You don’t like where Illinois is going, do everyone a favor and move to the other 49 states out there or even to another country. Simple. MOVE. Illinois will still be there. Millions of people have moved to different locales over many centuries. Stories where immigrants from Europe came to NYC with ten cents in their pocket and made it feasible. Stop complaining.
My guess is because geographically, this state is *extremely* divided when it comes to social issues and politics. NJ tends to be more uniform and is of course much smaller geographically and population wise than Illinois is.
While the bulk of the geographic area of the state is conservative (the southern portion especially), the smaller geographic area of Chicagoland is heavily liberal/democrat. Of course, Chicago has 3/4th's of the state's population, so naturally it controls the politics for the rest of the state. People downstate (rightfully, IMO) don't like it when their voices aren't heard over the heavily liberal state government here (especially crooks like Madigan). This especially because the city of Chicago is a *different world* than a place like southern Illinois. New York state is also divided in this way, as many towns and cities in upstate and western NY tend to be more conservative, but obviously the liberal haven that is NYC controls all political decisions going on there. It tends to be worse in these states too because taxes *are* a big problem. In heavily conservative states like Texas, Georgia and Utah though, taxes aren't *nearly* as big an issue as they are in CA, IL, NY, and NJ. Housing prices don't tend to be political, but taxes are. Of course, social issues in many conservative states *do* tend to be backwards to a decent amount of people.
Another thing is the fact that political corruption has essentially become a part of the *culture* of Chicago and Illinois, just like deep dish pizza, da Bears, and the Sears Tower are. It sucks because this association (as well as the crime/violence stereotype Chicago gets) almost certainly drives potential visitors of the state away, when there's no reason for it. As you said, all 50 states have issues and even corruption in some manners. Illinois though, is definitely among the worst offenders there.
People typically don't like being told to "move"; especially those who don't even live near Chicago but still need to pay taxes brought on to the entire state by Chicago politicians, and said taxes only tend to benefit people living in or around Chicago, while the infrastructure downstate is just left neglected. Illinois and its homeyness especially, people don't want to move, they'd rather see things change for the better. The reality is though unless Chicago and Illinois are broken off into two separate states, it will likely continue to be that Democrats and Chicago politicians have complete power over the entire state, thus leading to more division. The way things are set up now, Illinois will likely remain a heavily one party state.
Btw, partition may sound like a fantasy joke, but there are some serious movements going on now in California and New York for similar separations of their current states.
Last edited by CCrest182; 05-18-2019 at 05:42 PM..
The prospects for Illinois are grim and getting grimmer. I see no way that the state can extract the $250E9 it needs to pay the pensions and other bills, the taxes are soaring, and residents are leaving. Simply telling people to move is a worthless blow off to the problems that have been blown off for decades and have simply gotten worse. Can you imagine if the Chicago Police Chief held a press conference and told the people to just stop complaining and move if you don't like the violence? I get that some of you don't like being reminded of the fact that the party you idolize as the heroes of the working people have failed everyone and took care of only themselves and their cronies.
My guess is because geographically, this state is *extremely* divided when it comes to social issues and politics. NJ tends to be more uniform and is of course much smaller geographically and population wise than Illinois is.
While the bulk of the geographic area of the state is conservative (the southern portion especially), the smaller geographic area of Chicagoland is heavily liberal/democrat. Of course, Chicago has 3/4th's of the state's population, so naturally it controls the politics for the rest of the state. People downstate (rightfully, IMO) don't like it when their voices aren't heard over the heavily liberal state government here (especially crooks like Madigan). This especially because the city of Chicago is a *different world* than a place like southern Illinois. New York state is also divided in this way, as many towns and cities in upstate and western NY tend to be more conservative, but obviously the liberal haven that is NYC controls all political decisions going on there. It tends to be worse in these states too because taxes *are* a big problem. In heavily conservative states like Texas, Georgia and Utah though, taxes aren't *nearly* as big an issue as they are in CA, IL, NY, and NJ. Housing prices don't tend to be political, but taxes are. Of course, social issues in many conservative states *do* tend to be backwards to a decent amount of people.
Another thing is the fact that political corruption has essentially become a part of the *culture* of Chicago and Illinois, just like deep dish pizza, da Bears, and the Sears Tower are. It sucks because this association (as well as the crime/violence stereotype Chicago gets) almost certainly drives potential visitors of the state away, when there's no reason for it. As you said, all 50 states have issues and even corruption in some manners. Illinois though, is definitely among the worst offenders there.
People typically don't like being told to "move"; especially those who don't even live near Chicago but still need to pay taxes brought on to the entire state by Chicago politicians, and said taxes only tend to benefit people living in or around Chicago, while the infrastructure downstate is just left neglected. Illinois and its homeyness especially, people don't want to move, they'd rather see things change for the better. The reality is though unless Chicago and Illinois are broken off into two separate states, it will likely continue to be that Democrats and Chicago politicians have complete power over the entire state, thus leading to more division. The way things are set up now, Illinois will likely remain a heavily one party state.
Btw, partition may sound like a fantasy joke, but there are some serious movements going on now in California and New York for similar separations of their current states.
Great post. The bitterness towards Chicago by the rest of the state is warranted. Chicago's future is pretty much set in stone. The Democratic machine running this city has run it into the ground. What happened in Detroit will eventually be Chicago's fate. When this happens, will the voters learn anything? Doubtful. They still think there's an endless money tree somewhere.
OP, first off, welcome to C-D. Secondly, your premise is flawed, arguing whether Illinois has higher taxes than New Jersey is like two baboons arguing about whose butt looks worse - they're BOTH huge and red, and no one with any brains would choose to have a derriere that looks like that, and it's the same with New Jersey and Illinois - the taxes in both states are Too Darned High for what the residents get in return.
With respect to the Right to Complain, I've paid for my admission ticket via the horrible gain in residential real estate, which is primarily due to the state's highest (or second highest) real estate taxes. I was born and raised in the state, and used to be proud of living in Illinois, and especially Chicagoland. But the imbecilic, short-sighted, self-serving decisions made by politicians of both parties (but mostly Democrat, with Madigan and Cullerton large and in charge) over the past thirty years, has resulted in a pension debt (that is locked in by the state constitution) of approximately 135 billion, and that does not count the debt owed for public employee health care, nor does it count the heavily-underwater pensions of municipal or county workers. And, if what I've read is accurate, the worn-out infrastructure of the state is estimated to be as large of an expense as the pensions. And, being one of only several states in the nation that is losing population due to fed-up people leaving, and fewer people willing to move here, the overall picture is extremely gloomy, so much so that many believe the increasing debt and decreasing population will continue to grow to the point where the debt becomes insurmountable (a "death spiral"). That remains to be seen, but if it happens, it ain't gonna be pretty.
So, thanks for your concern and advice, but you're too late, I've already put plans in place to get out myself, I'll hopefully be gone within the next twelve months, sooner if possible. But I'm going to continue telling the Truth to anyone who cares to listen, thank you very much, in the hopes I can save some of them from making bad decisions going forward (keeping D's in power, and purchasing a house here without knowing all the facts). If I were younger and was offered a very good paying job here, I'd definitely move in, but would not purchase real estate, I'd rent until the end game is known. Probably about three or four more years, after the next recession. Pritzker's plans will probably shore up the state's finances and make things look pretty good by the end of his first term. But for the long term, not so much - it all depends on whether jobs are created that draw people to the state. I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
How about you? Got a cushy state job, or pension? Why are you so defensive of the state, and willing to forgive the idiots that caused this mess? NOBODY'S that much of a diehard Cubs fan.
It's not worth anything, because it's not going to happen (nor are the other movements to separate NYC from NYS or extreme Northern CA from the rest of CA). Those considering the issue should be spending more time trying to solve the issues of Illinois.
Both parts of the state would do good to realize that dumping the other won't do anything to save their financial and political woes...
A few years ago a Illinois state trooper told me service stations along the interstates wouldn't even accept their state issued credit cards (for gas), yeah, they got a problem, a big problem.
Skeddy, that has been proven to be a lie. I have seen you post that same exact statement elsewhere and it was factually wrong. Any Illinois state issued card has no problems purchasing anything.No need to provide fake news. Enough of that is out there already. Like mentioned before, no State is going to partition itself. Worthless to even talk about it. And if it weren’t for Chicago, Illinois couldn’t even sustain itself. Sorry, it would look like another Indiana. Every single state has problems. That’s reality.
JMGG, what happened to Detroit is a one trick pony because they put all of their eggs into one basket. When you focus only on vehicle manufacturing, and those companies need bailouts,and file for bankruptcy, what do you think happens? Illinois is the fifth GDP in the entire United States. That wouldn’t happen without Chicago. Chicago does more for Illinois than Illinois does for Chicago. Period. Chicago is a diversified economy. Multiple assets. Can’t fail.
Curly Q. I don’t have a state pension or anything regarding working for the state. I’ve worked for private companies my entire life. And who says I’m so defensive? As of now, I live in California. I’ve moved a few times as a matter of fact. It is NOT hard to move. Whether it be a city, town, state, or country, pack your things and get out. Easy. It’s a normal way of life. People have been doing it for centuries. Instead of complain, you hate the city and state so much, move to another and then start fresh and complain some more about the NEW place. Right? Maybe, you don’t watch a lot of sports but Chicago isn’t short on die hard Cubs, Blackhawks, Bulls, and Bears fans.
MSChemist. Simply telling someone to move is an easy solution. Having someone within state limits put down the cities and state at each venture does nothing productive. Doesn’t help the state. Doesn’t help with the issues at hand. Many people within the same state would rather you leave if the grass is greener on the other side. I can tell you from firsthand experience, it isn’t.
CCrest182, I hate to burst your bubble but that isn’t going to happen. States and cities can’t be broken up. It’s only nonsense. You have your movements that Philadelphia will break away from Pennsylvania, Cincinnati will break away from Ohio, NYC from New York. California will be split in half. List goes on and on to include all 50. That will never happen. Nothing will come out of those movements.
It is NOT hard to move. Whether it be a city, town, state, or country, pack your things and get out.
Haha, tell that to your school age children and wife. I've been fighting that battle for several years now and I'm tempted to move on my own and leave them behind, but I'd end up in an even worse financial situation by doing that so I'm stuck in an Illinois prison camp called catch 22.
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