illinois taxes and people who are moving out of the state (low income, property tax)

[wjj]

Originally Posted by MovingForward59

Now there is a lawsuit pending over the wording of the fair tax amendment and where its located on the ballot. You seriously can’t make this stuff up.
Only in Illinois.

I saw the ballot language for the first time on Sunday. I told my wife that someone was going to file a lawsuit immediately since the language borders on being an outright lie. It strongly infers (as in "states" to those not following it closely) that the amendment only allows taxes to be raised on the wealthy and lowered for the middle and lower class. But in reality, it also allows the opposite - lower tax on the wealthy and raise taxes on the middle and lower class. And of course the big gorilla in the room, it allows taxes to be raised on any income group at any time through a combination of rate rises and lowering brackets. And, despite denials, it does open the door to taxing retirement income at some special lower graduated rate which is the insidious part of this. Several Illinois reps and senators spilled the beans on this. They would never vote to tax retirement income at the flat rate we have now, but they believe the amendment is broad enough to set a separate graduated rate system for retirement income which they would vote for. You want to see a flood of people leaving Illinois, start taxing retirement income. And watch the lawsuits from public pensioners claiming that imposing a tax on their pensions is an unconstitutional (Illinois constitution) reduction of their guaranteed benefits.

[flamadiddle]

Here's the wording as I see it on a sample ballot. Definitely misleading, they are relying on low information voters to read this and say, yeah, sounds good to me. >>

(STATE OF ILLINOIS) PROPOSED
AMENDMENT TO THE 1970 ILLINOIS
CONSTITUTION
PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO THE 1970 ILLINOIS
CONSTITUTION
Explanation of Amendment
The proposed amendment grants the State authority to impose
higher income tax rates on higher income levels, which is how
the federal government and a majority of other states do it. The
amendment would remove the portion of the Revenue Article of
the Illinois Constitution that is sometimes referred to as the "flat
tax," that requires all taxes on income to be at the same rate.
The amendment does not itself change tax rates. It gives the
State the ability to impose higher tax rates on those with higher
income levels and lower income tax rates on those with middle
or lower income levels. You are asked to decide whether the
proposed amendment should become a part of the Illinois
Constitution

[Liledgy]

Originally Posted by wjj

I saw the ballot language for the first time on Sunday. I told my wife that someone was going to file a lawsuit immediately since the language borders on being an outright lie. It strongly infers (as in "states" to those not following it closely) that the amendment only allows taxes to be raised on the wealthy and lowered for the middle and lower class. But in reality, it also allows the opposite - lower tax on the wealthy and raise taxes on the middle and lower class. And of course the big gorilla in the room, it allows taxes to be raised on any income group at any time through a combination of rate rises and lowering brackets. And, despite denials, it does open the door to taxing retirement income at some special lower graduated rate which is the insidious part of this. Several Illinois reps and senators spilled the beans on this. They would never vote to tax retirement income at the flat rate we have now, but they believe the amendment is broad enough to set a separate graduated rate system for retirement income which they would vote for. You want to see a flood of people leaving Illinois, start taxing retirement income. And watch the lawsuits from public pensioners claiming that imposing a tax on their pensions is an unconstitutional (Illinois constitution) reduction of their guaranteed benefits.

You believe that the state intends to lower the tax rate for the wealthy and raise them for lower income taxpayers?

[BRU67]

I believe they'll start with a higher tax on the wealthy but it won't be enough so they'll lower the definition of "wealthy" as time goes on. It's a blank check to raise taxes. It's a bad idea in absence of another trade off, such as pension reform.

[wjj]

Originally Posted by Liledgy

You believe that the state intends to lower the tax rate for the wealthy and raise them for lower income taxpayers?

No I don't but it shows the absurdity of the ballot language which strongly infers that upper income can only go up and middle and lower income can only go down. That is flat out not true. What almost certainly would happen is that more brackets at higher rates will be added that dip well down into the middle class because that is where the real money is. There are not enough higher income people to tax and many will just move. Just give it a few years. California's 9.3% rate kicks in below $60,000 and applies all the way up to $300,000 where a slightly higher rate takes effect (you know, to get the rich). That is the kind of thing that Illinois can look forward to if this abomination passes. Soak the middle class because that is where the real money is and those are the people without the means to just move. Think about it. A 9.3% tax bracket that grabs everyone between $60,000 and $300,000. Basically an absurdly high flat tax on the middle class. It has already happened and could be coming to Illinois.

[pvande55]

Originally Posted by BRU67

I believe they'll start with a higher tax on the wealthy but it won't be enough so they'll lower the definition of "wealthy" as time goes on. It's a blank check to raise taxes. It's a bad idea in absence of another trade off, such as pension reform.

And inflation will add to it. 40 years ago, an income of $30K meant you were doing quite well. Now it is not much above minimum wage. They will do the same when they start taxing retirement income.

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by wjj

No I don't but it shows the absurdity of the ballot language which strongly infers that upper income can only go up and middle and lower income can only go down. That is flat out not true. What almost certainly would happen is that more brackets at higher rates will be added that dip well down into the middle class because that is where the real money is. There are not enough higher income people to tax and many will just move. Just give it a few years. California's 9.3% rate kicks in below $60,000 and applies all the way up to $300,000 where a slightly higher rate takes effect (you know, to get the rich). That is the kind of thing that Illinois can look forward to if this abomination passes. Soak the middle class because that is where the real money is and those are the people without the means to just move. Think about it. A 9.3% tax bracket that grabs everyone between $60,000 and $300,000. Basically an absurdly high flat tax on the middle class. It has already happened and could be coming to Illinois.

This is exactly what they have planned. It's plain as day what coming for the residents of this laughably corrupt state. You would almost think that the Democrats want people to move away from here.

[Liledgy]

Originally Posted by wjj

No I don't but it shows the absurdity of the ballot language which strongly infers that upper income can only go up and middle and lower income can only go down. That is flat out not true. What almost certainly would happen is that more brackets at higher rates will be added that dip well down into the middle class because that is where the real money is. There are not enough higher income people to tax and many will just move. Just give it a few years. California's 9.3% rate kicks in below $60,000 and applies all the way up to $300,000 where a slightly higher rate takes effect (you know, to get the rich). That is the kind of thing that Illinois can look forward to if this abomination passes. Soak the middle class because that is where the real money is and those are the people without the means to just move. Think about it. A 9.3% tax bracket that grabs everyone between $60,000 and $300,000. Basically an absurdly high flat tax on the middle class. It has already happened and could be coming to Illinois.

I don’t read anything that says upper income can only go up and lower income can only go down. But if you listen to the commercials and read how it’s presented on the ballot, there intent is to raise the % on the upper income earners, exactly how the federal income tax rates operate.

[wjj]

Originally Posted by Liledgy

I don’t read anything that says upper income can only go up and lower income can only go down. But if you listen to the commercials and read how it’s presented on the ballot, there intent is to raise the % on the upper income earners, exactly how the federal income tax rates operate.

Until they realize they need more money and redefine upper income as $50K like other states have.

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

Originally Posted by BRU67

I believe they'll start with a higher tax on the wealthy but it won't be enough so they'll lower the definition of "wealthy" as time goes on. It's a blank check to raise taxes. It's a bad idea in absence of another trade off, such as pension reform.

Exactly, if they can open the constitution up for this, they can open it up for pension changes.

I don't want to take away pension benefits that have already been earned, that's punitive. But IL's constitution guarantees that someone who works a short period of time under a certain set of pension benefits, keeps those same benefits for their entire career, and that's just plain crazy. To be specific, Tier One workers hired before 2011 (the year that new workers were hired in under Tier Two pension rules) have been accumulating Tier One benefits for the past nine years, when they should have been switched over to Tier Two in 2011 and had a "melded" pension. But that was forbidden due to the Constitution. IL politicians have been writing checks that the state can't pay for, for decades. Before they ask taxpayers for even more money, they need to fix that stupid rule.