"Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings" (Monroe: 2013, home)

[Bluefox]

Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to marry gays

NOTE: I'm not in any way trying to start a flame war. I want to know what Hoosiers think of this legislation and whether they think their elected leaders did the right thing here. So I would appreciate it if this thread was kept in the Indiana forum.

My opinion: It's one thing to make gay marriage illegal, but it's entirely another thing to inhibit religious freedom with what can only be described as social engineering. Gay marriage isn't legal in Indiana, and gay marriages aren't recognized by the state. That's well-established. My problem is this: why is it the business of the state of Indiana what a church may or may not decide to practice, when it doesn't affect or interfere with the rights of others whatsoever? It's not as if a "solemn" marriage ceremony in Indiana has any legal effect. As far as I know freedom of religion was a Constitutional right.

As a native Hoosier, I find it extremely disappointing to see this kind of legislation coming out of my home state.

[T. Damon]

Talk about completely bulldozing the separation of church and state!!! WTF is the Indiana legislature even stepping foot into (potential, not even practiced) religious ceremonies for?!

Too bad, I just spent my first time in Indianappolis during a road trip a few months ago and really liked it, thought I would like to come back to explore more and even research it as an area to live. This kind of state politics really turns me off and should disturb others as well though.

[Toxic Toast]

This comment from the article sums it up best:

These penal codes were taken out of context. The author is an idiot. All the laws are saying is that it is illegal to wed people who have falsified information for their wedding license. Google is a powerful tool to seek information, do not just take up arms because some tabloid journalist is trying to get his 15 minutes of fame.

I support 100% the rights of gay people to get married, but the gay lobby is not doing any favors to intelligent debate with these kinds of articles.

[ischyros]

I agree with Toxic Toast. I'm a huge proponent of gay marriage and think they deserve the same equal rights of everyone else, but this is a terrible article. The author even admits in the middle of it that he doesn't really know if this is a new law or not. And the law never once mentions clergy so they aren't being singled out, as the sensational article headline would have you believe. The law is actually saying that if information on a marriage license is falsified, it's illegal to marry those people. This applies to straight couples as well! You can be thrown in jail for marrying a straight couple that falsifies information on their marriage license.

[JohnnyIllini]

Why do people in Indiana always act like this, and why do they keep voting in people that are so psychotic? It almost seems like the politicians in Indiana try to act as unreasonable and unintelligent as humanly possible. One has to wonder if Indiana's politicians are going to demand that books be burned next.

[rrah]

Interesting that this comes up now. Last week two women in Monroe County applied for a marriage license. It was voided, BUT they did not lie on the license. Where the sex indicated "male" they scratched it out and wrote in "Female" or something like that. The women are 71 and 55 btw-together for years. Even if they marry in another state, it won't be recognized by Indiana thus the younger woman will not be eligible for benefits when the older woman dies.

[ischyros]

Originally Posted by rrah

Interesting that this comes up now. Last week two women in Monroe County applied for a marriage license. It was voided, BUT they did not lie on the license. Where the sex indicated "male" they scratched it out and wrote in "Female" or something like that. The women are 71 and 55 btw-together for years. Even if they marry in another state, it won't be recognized by Indiana thus the younger woman will not be eligible for benefits when the older woman dies.

Technically, and I'm not trying to say the law is right in any means, that is illegal. You can't alter a government form like that.

[rrah]

Originally Posted by ischyros

Technically, and I'm not trying to say the law is right in any means, that is illegal. You can't alter a government form like that.

The clerk in Monroe County didn't see it that way, and simply voided it. Based upon the local newspaper story, she did some due diligence prior to letting them fill out the application. I can almost guarantee that they will not be charged with a crime in Monroe County.

Of course, I was not there when they filled out the application. I don't know for a fact that they scratched out, "male." I assumed based upon some comments to the local article. (sorry I can't post it--It's subscription based) I just know that they did not lie on the form and filled it out as two females and indicated such on the form.

I just looked at the form. It does not state that it cannot be altered in any way. Often forms will indicate that they may not be altered.

[ischyros]

Originally Posted by rrah

The clerk in Monroe County didn't see it that way, and simply voided it. Based upon the local newspaper story, she did some due diligence prior to letting them fill out the application. I can almost guarantee that they will not be charged with a crime in Monroe County.

Of course, I was not there when they filled out the application. I don't know for a fact that they scratched out, "male." I assumed based upon some comments to the local article. (sorry I can't post it--It's subscription based) I just know that they did not lie on the form and filled it out as two females and indicated such on the form.

I just looked at the form. It does not state that it cannot be altered in any way. Often forms will indicate that they may not be altered.

It could be one of those laws that is rarely enforced. Unless a county clerk is having a bad day, they may not feel like hassling with calling the police and reporting it. It does state on the Indiana state website that one of the exclusions of issuing a marriage license is both parties being of the same gender.

Still, I don't believe crossing out something on a government form and writing in what you want would qualify as official and could possibly still be considered falsifying the form because they know the form asked for male name and female name but they still put two female names.

[rrah]

Originally Posted by ischyros

It could be one of those laws that is rarely enforced. Unless a county clerk is having a bad day, they may not feel like hassling with calling the police and reporting it. It does state on the Indiana state website that one of the exclusions of issuing a marriage license is both parties being of the same gender.

Still, I don't believe crossing out something on a government form and writing in what you want would qualify as official and could possibly still be considered falsifying the form because they know the form asked for male name and female name but they still put two female names.

For what it's worth, I have no desire to see these women arrested. I hope my post didn't suggest that. The clerk indicated she did some research on what to do in this case.