Indy advances to the final 20 in bid to win Amazon's 2nd HQ (Indianapolis: lease, crime)

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

While Indy is a step (or two) below places like Chicago and Washington DC by most metrics, I think the concern about Indianapolis being in Indiana is overblown. I've asked in this thread, and other places, why Indianapolis being in Indiana is any more of a penalty than Nashville in Tennessee, Atlanta in Georgia, Austin in Texas, or Raleigh in North Carolina. For example, North Carolina has had similarly divisive social law issues that has prompted boycotts. To date, Raleigh is thought of as a favorite for Amazon and North Carolina still has those laws. No one has been able to answer that. If Indianapolis doesn't land HQ2, I think the list of reasons related to the city will be longer and more substantive than "well it is in Indiana and Indiana is backwards."

Also, the state recently undid the ban on light rail. Hope springs eternal.

I'm not sure if this is good, bad, or doesn't mean anything at all, but virtually all of those cities are "discovered" and are "hotter" than Indy is right now.

I've never been to Austin, so I can't really comment there. I like Raleigh, and in many ways, it's very similar to Indy, but more of a "tech town." Raleigh, overall, seems like a slightly newer, more polished version of Indy.

The "discovered" thing may work in Indy's favor as well. The costs of doing business are likely to be lower. My guess is Indianapolis/Indiana would have to throw out an even bigger incentives package as underdog city.

There are some "discovered" areas that I like, but I've found that often just creates more congestion, price run-ups, etc., without any meaningful positive impact for most folks on the street.

[indy_317]

Originally Posted by Bluefox

I also don't think that its total light rail BAN is a positive in any respect.

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

Also, the state recently undid the ban on light rail. Hope springs eternal.

The light rail ban can actually be seen as a positive, and the fact that the state was willing to rescind the law due to a possible massive change in terms of income, taxes, etc.. makes it even more positive. What our state showed was fiscal restraint and protection of citizens who wouldn't have benefited from paying taxes for light rail to shuttle rich Hamiltonian's downtown for work. I know many suburban folks who were against the light rail because their county would never get one, despite claims of this light rail spoke system. Many said if the population doubled, then maybe their area would see a line put in. Plus, any light rail for Amazon would simply be a line out to the airport, to HQ2 (likely GM plant), to downtown. It would be more reasonable to spend the cost then given what Amazon would bring to the city. If the success was as expected, then consider a line to Fishers/Carmel and maybe Greenwood to downtown.

Basically, we put into a law 'we won't build it until you come.' I don't have a problem with that. Rail isn't needed for Indy at this time.

[W & C]

Originally Posted by indy_317

The light rail ban can actually be seen as a positive, and the fact that the state was willing to rescind the law due to a possible massive change in terms of income, taxes, etc.. makes it even more positive. What our state showed was fiscal restraint and protection of citizens who wouldn't have benefited from paying taxes for light rail to shuttle rich Hamiltonian's downtown for work. I know many suburban folks who were against the light rail because their county would never get one, despite claims of this light rail spoke system. Many said if the population doubled, then maybe their area would see a line put in. Plus, any light rail for Amazon would simply be a line out to the airport, to HQ2 (likely GM plant), to downtown. It would be more reasonable to spend the cost then given what Amazon would bring to the city. If the success was as expected, then consider a line to Fishers/Carmel and maybe Greenwood to downtown.

Basically, we put into a law 'we won't build it until you come.' I don't have a problem with that. Rail isn't needed for Indy at this time.

The thing is these projects take forever to properly plan, put into motion and finish.

Look - we've got plans for some extensions that won't be ready until 2041.

If it were up to me, I'd start ahead of time in anticipation.

[Dyadic]

Originally Posted by indy_317

The light rail ban can actually be seen as a positive, and the fact that the state was willing to rescind the law due to a possible massive change in terms of income, taxes, etc.. makes it even more positive. What our state showed was fiscal restraint and protection of citizens who wouldn't have benefited from paying taxes for light rail to shuttle rich Hamiltonian's downtown for work. I know many suburban folks who were against the light rail because their county would never get one, despite claims of this light rail spoke system. Many said if the population doubled, then maybe their area would see a line put in. Plus, any light rail for Amazon would simply be a line out to the airport, to HQ2 (likely GM plant), to downtown. It would be more reasonable to spend the cost then given what Amazon would bring to the city. If the success was as expected, then consider a line to Fishers/Carmel and maybe Greenwood to downtown.

Basically, we put into a law 'we won't build it until you come.' I don't have a problem with that. Rail isn't needed for Indy at this time.

Indianapolis is the economic engine of the state. I never understood why the rest of the state tries to interfere in Indianapolis politics. Why would should people outside of Marion County play a hand in determining the fate of local policy?

[Dyadic]

Originally Posted by Serious Conversation

I'm not sure if this is good, bad, or doesn't mean anything at all, but virtually all of those cities are "discovered" and are "hotter" than Indy is right now.

I've never been to Austin, so I can't really comment there. I like Raleigh, and in many ways, it's very similar to Indy, but more of a "tech town." Raleigh, overall, seems like a slightly newer, more polished version of Indy.

The "discovered" thing may work in Indy's favor as well. The costs of doing business are likely to be lower. My guess is Indianapolis/Indiana would have to throw out an even bigger incentives package as underdog city.

There are some "discovered" areas that I like, but I've found that often just creates more congestion, price run-ups, etc., without any meaningful positive impact for most folks on the street.

I think the fact that Indianapolis is centrally located and is extremely close to three of the top 50 research universities in the nation plays a huge role. That's not counting an additional half of dozen or more top 50 research universities that are within 350 miles are less.

[Bluefox]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

While Indy is a step (or two) below places like Chicago and Washington DC by most metrics, I think the concern about Indianapolis being in Indiana is overblown. I've asked in this thread, and other places, why Indianapolis being in Indiana is any more of a penalty than Nashville in Tennessee, Atlanta in Georgia, Austin in Texas, or Raleigh in North Carolina. For example, North Carolina has had similarly divisive social law issues that has prompted boycotts. To date, Raleigh is thought of as a favorite for Amazon and North Carolina still has those laws. No one has been able to answer that. If Indianapolis doesn't land HQ2, I think the list of reasons related to the city will be longer and more substantive than "well it is in Indiana and Indiana is backwards."

Also, the state recently undid the ban on light rail. Hope springs eternal.

Of course I agree that if Indy doesn't land the HQ2, it won't just be due to politics. But I'm also of the school of thought that Amazon relocating to a firmly red state will actually cause a major backlash in the market. I mean, let's regroup for a second: Amazon grew up in probably the most liberal city in the country. For it to open a second HQ in republicanland would be akin to Wal-Mart opening HQ2 in San Francisco. I think the impact, if any, is arguable, but there are already groups who are voicing their concerns about states like Indiana and North Carolina and Georgia even being considered.

At the end of the day, if Amazon/Bezos chooses a republican state, then it shows they care about profit so much more than they care about the social ideals they have ascribed themselves to as outlined in their company values. Maybe a lot of people won't care, but a lot of people WILL make a big stink about it. It will become a political issue, I'd bet my bottom dollar on that. The magnitude, however, is debatable.

Beyond the politics thought, you make a good point. Indy does sort of have that "blank slate" quality in that Amazon could have its way with the city more so than it could with a Chicago or a Dallas. After all, that's sort of how Seattle was in the 90s, when Boeing was the only big fish in town while Microsoft and Amazon were just small fry.

It's good that Indy rescinded the LR ban.... but why does it have to wait for investment to be innovative? Kansas City didn't need its street car, but look at the benefits it brought the city.

Overall, I don't mind Indy too much as a city. Not my favorite, but not a bad place by any means. I just think if it took a page out of Columbus or Nashville's book, it might be a little more relevant.

[Ivory Lee Spurlock]

Originally Posted by Dyadic

Indianapolis is the economic engine of the state. I never understood why the rest of the state tries to interfere in Indianapolis politics. Why would should people outside of Marion County play a hand in determining the fate of local policy?

I'm just guessing, but maybe because Indy is a state capital, and taxpayers think they should be able to control the capital city, especially if it's a mostly liberal city in a mostly conservative state. Many, if not most or all conservative Texas politicians who are not from Austin do the very same thing to Austin and Travis County, trying to change Austin's laws, and control the city as if they own it. Austin is known as "The People's Republic of Austin", to conservative Texas politicians. Even the current Governor Abbott in 2017 said something to the effect, that, once you leave the stench of Austin and Travis County and enter into Williamson County, you begin to smell freedom.

There was a movement for the State of Texas take control of Austin, the same way the federal government controls Washingon D.C. If conservative politicians had their way, the name of the city would no longer be Austin, Texas, but changed to, Austin, District of Travis. Austin D.T. ....Travis is the county that Austin is in.

http://kxan.com/2017/06/07/adler-res...stin-comments/

[Dyadic]

Originally Posted by Bluefox

Overall, I don't mind Indy too much as a city. Not my favorite, but not a bad place by any means. I just think if it took a page out of Columbus or Nashville's book, it might be a little more relevant.

By relevant do you mean popular? It's not like those two cities are head a shoulders better than Indy or in a different tier for that matter.

[Vanderbiltgrad]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

While Indy is a step (or two) below places like Chicago and Washington DC by most metrics, I think the concern about Indianapolis being in Indiana is overblown. I've asked in this thread, and other places, why Indianapolis being in Indiana is any more of a penalty than Nashville in Tennessee, Atlanta in Georgia, Austin in Texas, or Raleigh in North Carolina. For example, North Carolina has had similarly divisive social law issues that has prompted boycotts. To date, Raleigh is thought of as a favorite for Amazon and North Carolina still has those laws. No one has been able to answer that. If Indianapolis doesn't land HQ2, I think the list of reasons related to the city will be longer and more substantive than "well it is in Indiana and Indiana is backwards."

Also, the state recently undid the ban on light rail. Hope springs eternal.

I agree with this. Nashville is in TN and TN is super conservative outside of the cities, it does not effect us and same with Indy.

[sheerbliss]

Going by a county-level map of the last presidential election, it looks like most areas outside large cities are red. Amazon would have to go to LA or the Northeast to be in a sea of blue.