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Well, let's see how this Boomer (born 1960) and her DH stole their kid's future:
Worked long hours everyday. Not to house, feed, cloth and educate said kids, but just for the thrill of getting up at 5 and going to work.
Sent said kids to a private college prep school for K-12 because we cared nothing about their educations, but enjoy paying tuition bills.
Gave said kids opportunities to play an instrument, play sports, attend summer camps and travel overseas just to get em out of the house, expense be damned.
Paid total bills for 4 years of Undergrad education for said kids even though we know college grads enjoy those student loan payments.
And worst of all, we the awful Boomer parents, drove old cars, never took vacations and saved far less than we could have for our retirement just so we could steal our kid's futures.
And, I fully expect that FICA taxes will be raised significantly and benefits cut before I retire. I support both those measures not because I care about preserving SS for my kids but just because I love to pay higher taxes and have less money.
I'm Gen X but would disagree with you that SS and Medicare is going overwhelmingly to the poor - they are going to the retired and elderly.
Medicaid to the poor.
Since I'm only a hop, skip, and a jump away from the boomers - I will say only that I've given everything I had to raise my child; anything I could do for him, I did.
IF 40 years from now - he wants to blame me for the state of the world - so be it.
And, like the generations before...He may figure that out as he ages and gets a taste of real life. And, maybe even say thank you to you for all your parental and personal sacrifices.
I found an interesting article a friend sent to me on a social network site...Here is a link...Some good things to ponder at any age. 19 Things To Stop Doing In Your 20s | Thought Catalog
Not necessarily. There was a lot of economic transition into a service society and loss of our jobs thanks to that bonehead Clinton. Anyhoo, there were things that couldn't be avoided such as the war on terrorism, which really put our economy in the crapper.
None of this occurred deliberately. What did occur deliberately was moving significant numbers of "good" jobs abroad so shareholders would earn more and CEOs would earn a lot more.
Well, there's one who doesn't understand how to run a business.
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Originally Posted by matzoman
But who are these people that moved significant numbers of "good" jobs abroad so shareholders would earn more and CEOs would earn a lot more
And here's another.
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Originally Posted by Heidi60
Our children's future is eaten by the foreigners demanding more and more, not our seniors who built this country and so generously gave to the rest of the world when they were in need.
You stole the wealth, resources and profits of foreign countries, you wrongfully imprisoned people, tortured them, murdered them, denied them Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Assembly, Freedom of the Press and many other freedoms, and you intentionally on purpose blocked their development, and then you have the nerve to to complain that foreigners are demanding more?
I gotta wonder what people have against Hitler and Stalin.
Not amused...
Mircea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Actually, that's not why they did it. They did it for two reasons. 1) Americans demanded cheaper and cheaper products and labor is cheaper abroad. 2) by moving abroad, they would employ locals and, literally, create an emerging market for their products.
You're wrong, but you're really close to discovering the truth, so I repped you anyway.
It's about Market Share.
Why is Ford building an auto plant in India?
Two reasons...first, Indians cannot afford to buy Ford autos made in the USA, and second, the auto-market in India is emerging.....you either get in now, or get locked out...possibly forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Given we now operate in a global economy, things won't change any time soon. What is going to happen is every nation is going to have about the same standard of living. So average the standard of living worldwide... In other words, get ready to down size BIG TIME.
You are absolutely correct.
It is important to understand that the sole driving force behind global development is BRIC -- Brasil, Russia, India and China.
The US plays no role in global development. In fact, the US took great pains, spent $TRILLIONS and murdered lots of people over a span of 50+ years to block the development of countries --- so that they could not compete against the US because this is exactly what would have happened -- and the US is still spending money and murdering people to block development...even now Obama is sending US troops to Africa to interfere.
Everything the US does is a reaction to what BRIC does.
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
We need to accept that the American dream is dead.
No, you just need to realize that it was only a dream....but for people in the rest of the world, the American Dream was a Living Nightmarish Hell.
In any event, multi-generational households will be making a comeback, so don't panic yet.
Globally...
Mircea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I find it interesting that the Japenese were able to undermine our automakers by bringing in products to last when people don't keep them. The US attitude, prior to the emergence of the Japenese to the auto market, had been deliver flashy new cars every few years for people to buy. Our behavior hasn't changed. Just the price tag of the car.
You auto-makers destroyed themselves.
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Originally Posted by user_id
No, the reason the Japanese took over the auto market is that they created an improved manufacturing/design system that enabled them to produce better cars for less money.
That is not what happened.
The Japanese entered the US auto market a few years before the OPEC Oil Embargo. Japanese sales were weak because Americans still had a glaring hatred for all things Japanese -- note that Nissan was forced to enter the US market under the name Datsun due to the negative connotations associated with Nissan from WWII even though it was 25 years later. Also note that there are tremendous differences between the first cohort of Boomers 1946-1955 and the second cohort 1956 an after.
The 2nd cohort of Boomers were not as rapidly anti-Japanese. They bought the cheap Japanese imports --- cheap because of the differences in standard of living, life-style and wages between the US and Japan.
When the OPEC Oil Embargo hit, the US media was all over the Japanese car owners, who gleefully reported they didn't care about the oil embargo, because their cars were getting 25 MPG --- while the crap from Detroit was getting 8 MPG to 11 MPG.
Sales of Japanese cars took off.
Then Americans noticed something: the quality of Japanese cars were superior in every way, shape and form to US cars --- in part because US auto-makers engaged in the practice of "Planned Obsolescence" where cars were designed to fall apart after 2-3 years in order to force Americans to constantly buy cars.
The US auto industry took a beating. AMC (American Motors Corporation) went bankrupt. The Chrysler Corporation (Dodge Plymouth Chrysler) nearly went bankrupt until the US government bailed them out. Ford and Chevrolet were permanently traumatized and scarred.
US auto-makers then spent the next 15 years attempting to convince Americans that the Big 3 were no longer committing fraud and theft by delivering junk. You had massive advertising campaigns: Ford -- Quality Is Job #1 and that kind of thing.
The Japanese captured a good chunk of US Market Share, and then started building plants in the US. There is no real qualitative difference between US and Japanese cars now, but some still maintain that perception.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
But, interestingly, people only keep them a few years and then they want a new one.
That's marketing....it's also stupidity.
Stupid people make comments like, "The American Middle Class is disappearing." Those same stupid people don't realize that the present Stupid Class, uh, Middle Class, sorry, does not behave like the previous Smart Classes, uh, wait, previous Middle Classes.
The Middle Class always saved up 10% to 20% cash for a down-payment on a car, and they financed the car for 12 months, sometimes 18 months, and maybe if you had always bought your car from that dealer they'd let you slide with 24 months.
The present Middle Class is too stupid and immature to save up 10%-20% cash for a down-payment, and they gladly finance a car for 60 to 72 months, only to become upside down on the car note after 2-3 years and they see buying a new car as the only way to "save face."
And then the Stupid Class has the gall to complain that they don't have any wealth. Well, stop making perpetual car payments and use that money to build wealth and then they'll have wealth.
There was a lot of economic transition into a service society and loss of our jobs...
...was well under way long before Clinton ever came into office.
NAFTA didn't work out I didn't like it then either...
but the issue with it's failure wasn't the idea of helping our neighbors to have low skilled work
that would motivate their citizens to stay and do well THERE...
...the issue was that the illegal immigrant restriction end of the deal never got put into place.
Look into how that came about (or didn't).
Children of baby boomers: Won't take 'no' for an answer.
How's that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me
And worst of all, we the awful Boomer parents, drove old cars, never took vacations and saved far less than we could have for our retirement just so we could steal our kid's futures.
Oh, you are pure evil indeed. Wish I could rep you, but I have to share the love with some other folks first.
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Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
I say False. If anything, Baby Boomers have spoiled their children too much though.
I agree, and would extend that to suggest that we Baby Boomers were spoiled too much as well.
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Originally Posted by HereOnMars
My comments are based on personal stories told to me by my parents (who were married during the Depression) and seeing how their life was and that of their close friends who'd come to the house. Sometimes you have to listen to people talking about their lives in that time to gain perspective that not everyone complained about their life.
I heard similar stories from my parents and aunts and uncles, who were children or came of age during the Depression. My mom's rural family actually fared better than my dad's urban family, because my mom's brothers could always go out to shoot rabbits or catch fish when food and money were scarce. My great-grandfather's construction business took a hit after the stock market crashed, and the Depression pretty much guaranteed he wouldn't be able to revive it any time soon.
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Originally Posted by CK78
And related to the same point, the people who "lived" during the depression and worked through it are long dead.
And that invalidates their experiences, and our history as a nation ... how?
Quote:
I don't feel comfortable at all saying the same about today's kids, 20's, 30's and early to mid 40 something people.
Well, we don't know what the future holds, so there's no point in moping about it one way or the other. If that were the case, those of us faced with double-digit unemployment and inflation in the late 1970s and early 1980s would have just checked ourselves out instead of continuing to find a way to make it work.
If you want a better future, though, I suggest you get out there and work for it. Get involved in your community and local government. Make your voice heard. Whining on a message board will not yield the results you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN
Then I guess we did a better job of taking care of our parents than this generation is at taking care of us. We also paid off a war debt, etc., etc., etc. And we were paying into a pool until some of the presidents decided to dip into the till. You can check back and see which ones did this. I think everybody that is a baby boomer has been robbed by the government.
Agreed. Good point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me
Last I heard anyone over 18 is eligible to vote so it's rather disingenuous to blame just one generation for the people in power. And unless the media is wrong, the youth vote was largely responsible for electing the President both times. If they're not happy with his performance, they have no one to blame but themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sskink
Boomers invented and propagated:
- Chicken McNuggets
- Supersized everything
- Wal-Mart and the "need" to buy more and more for less and less
- RoundUp Ready crops
- iPhones, texting and GPS
- Cartoons that promote empty consumerism
- ESPN
- Viagra
OK, then, get rid of your smartphone, cut your cable and ESPN, and stop drinking Big Gulps.
You go first.
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We created increased obesity, diabetes, food allergies
Wow. I had no idea we Baby Boomers could do all that. We are amazing!!!!
Quote:
We created the idea that brands = status, which is about the stupidest thing in the world. Money being spent on labels that could be invested in more productive pursuits. Not to mention all the stupid products that came about because we, as advertisers and marketers, created a false need for said crap.
Consumerism has been around long before Baby Boomers were a twinkle in their great-grandparents' eyes. Try again.
Quote:
previous generations didn't need to pay for TV and internet.
These thread appears to be rife with those that are blaming just one generation. Funny, the laws and government have been voted into place by not just one generation, but many, for a couple hundred years. I started voting at 18 back in the 70's. How many others have been voting, and for how many years. The issues that are causing so many folks so much anguish, at least those posting such on this thread, are muti-generational and multi-problematic. I'd hazard a guess that there are many generations of voters represented just on this thread alone. Remember, those that point fingers, when you do, there are 3 fingers pointing back at you.
I don't understand this at all. So, I'm 61, I've worked since I was 13, saved, put money into Social Security and can start to collect in a few years. I don't live beyond my means, but am comfortable.
According to some, I've "ruined" the country? What would you have me do? Not collect something I've paid into for decades? Walk into the nearest Soylent Green factory?
Stupid people make comments like, "The American Middle Class is disappearing." Those same stupid people don't realize that the present Stupid Class, uh, Middle Class, sorry, does not behave like the previous Smart Classes, uh, wait, previous Middle Classes.
The Middle Class always saved up 10% to 20% cash for a down-payment on a car, and they financed the car for 12 months, sometimes 18 months, and maybe if you had always bought your car from that dealer they'd let you slide with 24 months.
The present Middle Class is too stupid and immature to save up 10%-20% cash for a down-payment, and they gladly finance a car for 60 to 72 months, only to become upside down on the car note after 2-3 years and they see buying a new car as the only way to "save face."
And then the Stupid Class has the gall to complain that they don't have any wealth. Well, stop making perpetual car payments and use that money to build wealth and then they'll have wealth.
Historically...
Mircea
So, what do YOU wish to see happen? As pedantic and thorough as your take on these dynamics is, I almost sense a bit of schadenfreude in your postulations. Is the concept of national sovereignty an academic abstraction in the world you live in? I only ask because I want to understand your vantage point.
Seems to me your observations seem to be spoken of in the third person, as if to suggest the decline of living standards of this Country are immaterial to you insofar as they will not personally affect your daily existence. You are a US citizen I assume?
I rather entertain the postulations of someone who points at a problem with the intent of offering a solution they're vested in rather than someone who speaks pejoratively about the very platform from where they have the privilege to speak from in the first place. I guess I don't buy the "Im a citizen of the world" globalized mantra that the top banker/financier families use to sleep themselves at night and I certainly don't appreciate when they use the platform of Law and Order the US provides their corporate legal "identities", to levy their personal and family interests around the world at the detriment of the populace that bleeds and economically falls behind in order to provide said platform for their benefit in the first place. I don't believe our Law and Order is an academic abstraction to be taken for granted with such disconnected speak about the "stupid" in our Country. However economically un-savvy the average consumer is, they provide me with more insulation from the threat of lack of liberty and freedom of thought than most of these US labeled multi-nationals and the top families that run them.
I believe and fight for my National Sovereignty, and I concede and internalize all the historical atrocities that came along its history as part of its historical definition. No civilization is innocent from breaching against one another so spare me the "BRIC nations are humble and innocent and just looking for parity" 1st world guilt trip. I just don't go calling the masses I call my neighbors, who insulate me from the dispossession of the so-called developing Nations with the law and order we provide one another, "stupid" and then go on my way not offering an out. I just would like to hear your suggestion as to how we could re-direct our Country back to less socioeconomic polarization without resorting to schadenfreude and "f u i got mine"
I don't understand this at all. So, I'm 61, I've worked since I was 13, saved, put money into Social Security and can start to collect in a few years. I don't live beyond my means, but am comfortable.
According to some, I've "ruined" the country? What would you have me do? Not collect something I've paid into for decades? Walk into the nearest Soylent Green factory?
Some of the folks who think you're a drain on the economy would love to have you do this. The best revenge is living a long life. I wish you many, many years.
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