Southern influence in IA (Des Moines, Dixon: vs, estate, money)

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

He's got most of Illinois and Missouri in Greater Appalachia. I call BS on that.

Greater Appalachia according to this map extends to New Mexico. As someone who has lived in the worst part of America that is Appalachia most of his life, no one I know views anything north of Pittsburgh, south of Greenville, SC, east of Charlotte/Charlottesville, VA, west of Lexington KY/Knoxville, TN as Appalachia.

The Appalachian core is WV, southwest VA, east TN, east KY, west NC, and possibly western OH and southwest PA, and everything but northern WV, OH, and PA culturally identify with the South. I don't see significant core Appalachian influence outside of those areas. There is absolutely nothing culturally "Appalachian" about his greater Appalachia category that fans out into TX, IL, etc. These states have their own cultures and are hardly Appalachian.

It's absolute BS from someone who has never apparently lived in core Appalachia then traveled outside of it. There is nothing in Iowa that in the least resembles Appalachia. The most depressed parts of Iowa look like paradise compared to core Appalachia. Appalachia more closely resembles a third world nation that has been devastated by a foreign power than a part of functioning America.

[Stavemaster]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

He's got most of Illinois and Missouri in Greater Appalachia. I call BS on that.

I'm not sure how he justifies that. Common ancestry, maybe? Voting patterns over the years?

Although when my best friend would come back from visits with his dad's family in central Illinois he'd always comment that our Iowa rednecks have nothing on theirs, so who knows?

Originally Posted by Emigrations

It's absolute BS from someone who has never apparently lived in core Appalachia then traveled outside of it. There is nothing in Iowa that in the least resembles Appalachia. The most depressed parts of Iowa look like paradise compared to core Appalachia. Appalachia more closely resembles a third world nation that has been devastated by a foreign power than a part of functioning America.

The scenery's nice, though!

[attrapereves]

I was born in the South, live in MO, and have traveled throughout Iowa. Iowa is in no shape or form Southern. Also, I don't find Missouri to be all that southern unless you get below I-70.

[nlst]

GraniteStater doesn’t even know where the Little Dixie area of Missouri is. And regardless that area is no longer Southern. It really annoys me when people make stuff up just to suit their needs. Before GraniteStater said the dividing line was 50 miles south of I-70, now he’s trying to claim it’s the Missouri-Iowa border, and also that Missouri as a whole state is Southern, which people from Iowa may believe but boy are they wrong..that effectively makes ST. Louis and Kansas City Southern, which in turn effectively makes Des Moines Southern since it’s just like those cities culturally, demographically, and for the most part linguistically. Very logical, isn’t it? Also I disagree with attrapereves that I-70 is the dividing line. Look at a map of dialects created by the University of Pennsylvania…that shows you the true north/south divide. Suggesting I-70 is the dividing line implies where I live, which is south of I-70, is the south, and I can assure you that’s not the case. The southern half of Iowa has nothing southern about it, and northern Missouri does not have southern influences to where it’s near Iowa. I agree I-80 is the dividing line between the south and Lower Midwest, but to say that southern influences start to the south of I-80 means that most of Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio are southern influenced. This is ridiculous. You all can have your fun living in a world of make believe. I don’t know why I waste my time trying to teach a group like this logic from madness anyway.

Missouri is a stately mostly in the Lower Midwest. And the Lower Midwest is as much a part of the Midwest as the Upper Midwest is.

[funksoulbro]

I have to say I agree with the US-34 line as where any minute trace of "Southern" culture can be found in Iowa. Even south of 34, the traces are still relatively small. My job takes me all over eastern Iowa, and I've noticed down by the Burlington/Ottumwa area is where you begin to pick up faint signals of a Southern drawl.

It's definitely not a full-on Southern accent, but it has vestiges of something like it. BTW, this is also true of areas south of Peoria in Illinois. In fact, southern Illinois is basically the northern end of The South in practical terms.

[imbored198824]

I live in southern Missouri near the Arkansas state line(Branson). I har visited Memphis Missouri close to the Iowa state line. The waitress we had asked us where we were from. She was amazed when we said Missouri...she thought alabama or something. That makes me believe soutern Iowa isn't southern at all...because people in Memphis mo were 100% Midwestern!!

[joebtsflk1]

Originally Posted by funksoulbro

I have to say I agree with the US-34 line as where any minute trace of "Southern" culture can be found in Iowa. Even south of 34, the traces are still relatively small. My job takes me all over eastern Iowa, and I've noticed down by the Burlington/Ottumwa area is where you begin to pick up faint signals of a Southern drawl.

It's definitely not a full-on Southern accent, but it has vestiges of something like it. BTW, this is also true of areas south of Peoria in Illinois. In fact, southern Illinois is basically the northern end of The South in practical terms.

I grew up just 12 miles north of US 34 near Ottumwa. The accents take on a bit more southern drawl south of 34. It's more noticeable among people who grew up in predominately rural areas like myself than people who live in larger towns like Ottumwa. My accent has a bit of a southern drawl, even though I grew up north of 34, than friends of mine who grew up in Ottumwa.

Is it full-on Southern culture in southern Iowa? No way! 34 is more of a break in dialect lines than culture lines. Central Iowa is a narrow "neutral zone" between southern dialects and northern dialects that have "about" rhyming with "boat" more than "bout." You are more apt to have bluegrass festivals south of 34 than anywhere else in Iowa. The occassional "polka" or "oldtime" radio show is more apt to appear north of I-80, generally in eastern Iowa centered on a Iowa City-Cedar Rapids-Decorah axis.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by nlst

GraniteStater doesn’t even know where the Little Dixie area of Missouri is. And regardless that area is no longer Southern. It really annoys me when people make stuff up just to suit their needs. Before GraniteStater said the dividing line was 50 miles south of I-70, now he’s trying to claim it’s the Missouri-Iowa border, and also that Missouri as a whole state is Southern, which people from Iowa may believe but boy are they wrong..that effectively makes ST. Louis and Kansas City Southern, which in turn effectively makes Des Moines Southern since it’s just like those cities culturally, demographically, and for the most part linguistically. Very logical, isn’t it? Also I disagree with attrapereves that I-70 is the dividing line. Look at a map of dialects created by the University of Pennsylvania…that shows you the true north/south divide. Suggesting I-70 is the dividing line implies where I live, which is south of I-70, is the south, and I can assure you that’s not the case. The southern half of Iowa has nothing southern about it, and northern Missouri does not have southern influences to where it’s near Iowa. I agree I-80 is the dividing line between the south and Lower Midwest, but to say that southern influences start to the south of I-80 means that most of Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio are southern influenced. This is ridiculous. You all can have your fun living in a world of make believe. I don’t know why I waste my time trying to teach a group like this logic from madness anyway.

Missouri is a stately mostly in the Lower Midwest. And the Lower Midwest is as much a part of the Midwest as the Upper Midwest is.

Just because its part of the Midwest doesn't mean the culture is the same, it's not even close. I've spent a lot of time in both the upper Midwest and lower Midwest and it's night and day different....

[imbored198824]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Just because its part of the Midwest doesn't mean the culture is the same, it's not even close. I've spent a lot of time in both the upper Midwest and lower Midwest and it's night and day different....

Missouri is a lot different than Midwestern states. When it comes to dialect food religion ect!!! It annoys me when people try to overlook this fact. The fact of the matter is that even into northern and central Missouri people can be found with southern sounding accents. Now when It comes to southern Missouri most people have thick southern accents. How can you classify a whole state into a geographical and cultural region when huge chunks of this state do not meet the criteria? Go to sikeston, charleston, Kennett, West plains, Branson ect and tell me Missouri is a solidly Midwestern state!!

[jgn2013]

Without the black American/African culture, it's not really "Southern." Heavy Scots-Irish and English culture makes it more 'hillbilly' like WV.