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I'm not terribly concerned with diversity or the definition. I'm simply wanting a safe place with teachers that care about a child progressing and making him or her hungry to acquire more knowledge.
This would be my attitude about schools if I had kids - and it's my general attitude about life. The Florida Bar has endless discussions/seminars/articles about diversity. Not about improving the quality of lawyers - lawyers' ethics - or lawyers' incomes (the last is increasingly an issue today). As a lawyer and a client - I want to see thousands of great ethical lawyers who are making decent livings. Without regard to "flavor". Robyn
I don't think you're requirements are unrealistic. We're all looking for the best place that will nurture and challenge our children to bring out their best. We're supposed to define the ideal and then go search for something that's close. I totally understand what you mean about the attitude of certain schools (typically private, but you'd be surprised by public ones too sometimes). We're moving from the San Francisco Bay Area, where my young children attend private school b/c the public school is so intense that there were a series of suicides last years with high school students unable to deal with the pressure. It was tragic. And I totally get you on how what we're looking for is a culture where parents are involved (but not helicoptering), where diversity is important, because otherwise we and our kids live in a bubble.
As far as schools in St Johns/Duval go, I can't answer specifics. We will start at the new K-8 in Nocatee in August. But I can tell you that before we chose Nocatee, I toured numerous schools in both Duval and St Johns, both public and private. I interviewed teachers and administrators, and I asked other parents their opinions. I toured Bolles and thought it was a fine choice, but because this is the first time my children have ever moved, I wanted them to feel integrated into the neighborhood and I thought the best way to do that is to have them attend the school where they will live. That way, they can make lots of friends, both with the kids who already live in Nocatee, and the number of new kids who are moving in this summer (very exciting!).
So I'm going to say what you already know, which is come tour the schools, interview the administration, talk to the teachers, and follow your gut. You know where your children will thrive best.
Thanks for your post! It's great to hear from someone who appreciates my dilemma. It sounds as though you have confronted similar circumstances too. I also intend to visit all of the schools this summer and I hope to gain a better feel for things. Do you know if schools offer prospective students the chance to sit-in on classes for a day?? Thanks again for posting your feedback! Good luck for the new school year and the move!
AlpineAnnie: I would suggest that you start a new thread and perhaps indicate in the thread title Looking for First Hand Info on Bolles or Comparing Bolles and St. Johns County Public Schools. Give your parameters in the body of the thread and see if you get more responses.
I agree with messages 22 and 23 in terms of starting a new thread specifically about schools and checking out things yourself. Especially the latter. There's no substitute for first hand discussions/observations.
We're planning to do this, but I thought some feedback upfront couldn't hurt either.
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We've had some threads about private schools including Bolles and the magnets - but nothing recently. E.g.,:
Along these lines - I'd also try to contact the jsimms3 in the above thread. He's the only young person I know who grew up here in Duval County who is familiar with the overall private school/magnet school situation. He doesn't live here now - but his experiences are fairly recent (he's probably in his late 20's).
Thanks for this, I will reach out to him and check out the threads. I have only read about Bolles in some private school forums, where you often get negative feedback from "bitter/unhappy" students or parents; a lot of inference skills are needed to get to the "truth." This seems like a better option.
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Unless you abandon your plans to build your own "interesting" house* - you can 100% forget about Nocatee. And the Nocatee area schools for the most part (perhaps there are some "non-Nocatee" areas that are zoned for Nocatee schools - but - if they exist - they're probably very small).
I'm painfully aware of abandoning plans, housing or otherwise; it seems to be my destiny. Good thing I read that Steinbeck novel in school. Anyway, we'll do our best to make both happen, and I appreciate your feedback on the feasibility; that's what I'm looking for.
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Because you'll be dealing with 2 different school levels when you first get here (elementary and middle) - I'd recommend renting in Ponte Vedra Beach first. So your kids can attend schools that everyone agrees are pretty good and close to one another. Perhaps there's another part of St. Johns County that is equally suitable in terms of elementary and middle schools - but I'm not familiar with the whole county. With Bolles - you'd be dealing with 2 different campuses in different parts of town (I wouldn't want to do that right off the bat upon arrival - but YMMV) - and the magnet school situation would probably be difficult to sort out from abroad.
This has been my thinking from the beginning, thanks for the confirmation. We will rent first and acclimate and dig deeper once we're there, but I would sure love the school thing to be figured out so they don't have to switch yet again.
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BTW - it's hard to tell from your messages - but I think you'll be arriving for the 2015-2016 school year - or perhaps in the middle of the 2015 school year. But not arriving at the start of the 2014-15 school year - yes?
Yes, that's right, we are trying to be a bit flexible about whether we start mid-year 2014-15, of make a fresh start of it in the fall of 2015. Many factors have to be weighed, but I'm hoping it will be more like at semester term.
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In terms of athletics - you'll find a pretty big emphasis on them in most Florida schools - public or private. Football is important almost everywhere. Bolles has a world class swimming program. Stanton and other schools have crew. Etc. IOW - I wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to find schools that de-emphasize athletics. I'd just try to find ones that emphasize the non-athletic programs you're looking for.
This is also super helpful advice. Football, well I'm an avid fan, but I guess also a hypocrite b/c in my line of work I can't permit my kids to play the tackle version. They both play flag currently (yes, they have football in Austria). My eldest just started rowing, and has really taken to it. His coach is an American (that may help). No swimmers in our family, we're land-huggers. Little guy is tennis and running, so yes, I'll double-check "strengths" at the respective schools. I'm not looking for schools that de-emphasize athletics at all. Any other activities are icing on the cake IMO; it will invariably be more than what they're getting now. My concern was more the magnets. They typically don't have stellar athletics.
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When it comes to money - and attitudes about money - you're not going to find any school that is homogeneous. Or 100% to your liking. I've heard stories from school kids and their parents about snobby self-entitled bratty behavior in all of the schools/school areas you're considering. Especially at the high school level. One of my neighbor's girls got into such a bad crowd at Nease that she yanked her daughter out of Nease and put her into a Catholic school in St. Augustine that emphasized things like discipline and humility. Nothing perhaps that unusual about the situation - except that my neighbor is Jewish! And I've spent time with a black inner city JAX basketball scholarship kid at Bolles and his father. The kid had a miserable time at Bolles. Because he didn't "fit in" and feel comfortable. Which didn't surprise me after dining with his father and the father's girlfriend. The girlfriend had never dined with white people before our dinner. And she clearly wasn't comfortable with us.
What you say is true and I agree, there's no such thing as a sure thing. But you do speak to my emphasis on a "match." Brats and stuck up kids are everywhere. I managed to survive most of it myself, but my kids had real issues and it was probably circumstantial; I doubt that any of the kids in SJC or JAX have had to attend classes with the progeny of Russian oligarchs. This was categorically not a good crowd, sorry if I sound prejudiced. Now they think money, and having it, is evil. BTW my "super" Catholic friend from HS went to Brandeis; happens all the time.
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Which is not to say these schools are all bad. Far from it. They just aren't perfect beds of roses.
Even at magnet schools like Stanton or Douglas Anderson - which come up on my radar screen perhaps less than other schools in this regard - there are "community issues". Because the magnet schools have higher %s of higher income white kids than you'll find in general in the neighborhoods where the magnet schools are located (those neighborhoods tend to be lower income and black - no surprise considering the name and purpose of "magnet schools"). Also - WRT magnet schools - there are some people in Duval County who want to see them disbanded. I don't think this movement has gained much traction as of today - but it's something to keep an eye on.
Yeah, read about the disbanding in a Jacksonville newspaper article.
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One issue that most people side-step or ignore is that St. Johns County is - in part - a "white flight" county today. People with kids either leaving JAX/Duval County. Or people moving here from elsewhere (for any number of reasons) - bypassing JAX/Duval County - and coming to St. Johns County because they don't want to deal with the "diversity" in JAX/Duval County public schools or navigate the intricacies of the magnet school system there. You will be re-entering the United States. Where race is very much an issue in many spheres of life - even if people don't talk about it. Note that - as a result of cost - private schools like Bolles aren't an option for most of these people. It's a choice between public schools in one place versus public schools in another place.
Of course - not everyone is fleeing JAX/Duval County. My husband and I were driving around a part of JAX yesterday (the part around Beach and Hodges/Kernan) running some errands - and there's a ton of new development there. What used to be mostly trees/scrub land when we moved here 19 years ago is now mostly houses and retail developments. So what I'm talking about is more of an increasing trend than a stampede. Robyn
*The house part is going to be challenging. In terms of finding developed land where you can build what you want. And - because your lot may wind up being anywhere - that might be a factor in favor of Bolles in the long run - because you can live anywhere and have your kids in Bolles. OTOH - Bolles has established bus routes (the Bolles bus stops at my street corner) - and - if you aren't near a bus stop - you'll have to drive your kids to a bus stop (or to the schools themselves).
No Russian oligarchs here best I know. They're all in Miami <LOL>.
No matter what the plans for your house ("interesting" or not) - I think you will definitely want to build. Just to get remotely what you want. I don't think we're as fussy as you guys are - but we had to build to get what we wanted - especially in terms of structural things and a floor plan. BTW - you will be somewhat hemmed in building here by windstorm/flood building codes. And that's not a bad thing. If anything - you'll want to build to more than minimum codes (most mass builders do the minimum). And I wouldn't 100% rule out HOAs. Some may give you enough latitude to do something you like. Even older HOAs (like mine and others) still have some vacant lots.
Since you'll have one kid in elementary school and one in middle school - they'll be switching (to middle school and high school) a bit down the road. So I probably wouldn't sweat that one too much.
In terms of athletics - I represented Riddell (the company that makes football helmets) a long time ago. Saw a fair number of gruesome injuries to high school and college kids. I'm with you in terms of your football decision.
When it comes to rowing - there was a recent article in the FTU about high school kids and rowing. I was only able to find part of the print edition article (which discussed quite a few students) here:
He might even try to contact the young man mentioned in the first article - who started rowing in about the 8th grade. People here tend to be friendly. And - people who have a passion are usually very willing to share information with others who have the same passion.
This is a great place for rowing. Other water sports too. Also golf. Robyn
She was the developer's broker when we bought our lot. She's very knowledgeable - polished and professional. Plus - her husband is an architect (although I don't have a clue what kind of work he does)! Robyn
Thanks for the info. on rowing & RE brokerage. Building codes are my husband's domain, but I know windstorm issues were big in coastal UK and Ireland, where he's done some projects. We'll wait and see, I guess.
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