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Old 02-11-2011, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, WA
8,217 posts, read 16,710,456 times
Reputation: 9477

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Hey guys/gals,

I know that times are tough right now. So I wanted to provide a little guidance to job seekers which may help some of you on your journey. I responed to christianguitarist27's post as well. But I thought I'd create a new thread looking at things a little differently.

Today I'm home from work with a cold. Hence I'm reading some of these threads on CD. I am a hiring manager for top fortune 500 technology company. So maybe I can address things from more of a corporate perspective.

For our company and others like it we require you to apply online through our corporate website. With large companies we have fully computerized HR systems which must be used if you ever want to work for us. There are no exceptions or special dude/bro deals or instant interview type offers made. Policies must be followed corporately which are both mandated and regulated. I also work indirectly for the Gov't and the same applies for federal jobs. So there is a reason in these cases to follow standard procedures. We service a different type of client and have a different work force.

Now that said some of the principles which christianguitarist27 stated in his thread still apply in the corporate world like taking initiative, selling yourself and your skills, standing out from the crowd (sea of resumes), being honest and forthright, persistant and polite (not a pest), thinking outside the box, etc... Part of these skills come more naturally to some, while others can be taught them, still others learn them through the school of hard knocks. I kind of learned them as I went through all these avenues.

Lets start with #1 for our company:

1. Experience: Experience is King, especially in times like these in a down market. What can you do (have you done) and is it relavant at all to the position you are applying for? If you don't have it find a way to get it even if taking a lower paying job temporarily.

2. Demonstration of initiative: Are you a go getter? Do you like making things happen, watching things happen or asking what happened? If you have initiative how has that been demonstrated in previous positions you've held? Do you wait for people to come to you and or can you take ideas/ business proposal to management, then execute a plan of action. Can you work independently if required?

3. Sales: I know, I know you're not in sales or looking for a sales job. Well, I'm not either. But whether you realize it or not you are selling us your skills. Do you believe in yourself, have confidence in your skills, abilities and benefit you would provide our company if we hire you. Are you enthusiastic, upbeat, positive, a problem solver (vs. creator, drama king/queen).

4. Education: Did you work hard in school toward a goal? If so did you achieve it? I can tell you that in the corporate world education and training are important. And depending on the position you cannot even be considered unless you have the appropriate training. I know that for the for some jobs/companies this may not be as important. That said I can tell you that I helped hire someone who had a degree in a non-related field (phsychology) because he had the others qualities mentioned here.

5. Professionalism: this covers many areas but includes some key components:
a. Resume: perhaps the most important. Many ppl have good raw skills. But they don't know how to present them in an accurate, concise and articulate fashion for managers to notice. Have you heard the term - you never get a second chance to make a good first impression. Well its true. I review hundreds of resumes, and if yours doesn't jump at me and is hard to read/follow in terms of your ability to fill the position I am trying to hire for then there is a problem. Key here, tailor the resume. Don't send your generic version which applies for any job and has an unrelated professional objective, etc... Instead of the shotgun approach, target jobs you are most interested in and spend more time/effort demonstrating why you would be a good fit. Put your contact information on it and follow up when called or emailed. Don't lie about education/experience! We'll catch it and it will be grounds for automatic dismissal as a candidate.
b. The Interview: Personal presentation and speech. Don't come in dressed in casual clothes and use slang in the interview. Anticipate questions in the interview and provide additional information about your professional achievements. Tell a story about what you have done and make it relavant to the current job.

6. Perisistance: Don't give up or sell yourself short. If you see a job that looks interesting which you think you could possibly do, but then you read the requirements and you don't have all of them, don't give up. Seriously this is an important one. I've never had 100% of the requirements for the positions I've held. But I still applied and whoever was hiring saw that I was the best candidate for the job. Maybe I had 70-80% of the requirements, but then had additional skills, qualities they were looking for. Or maybe the next guy in line only had 68%. You'll never know unless you try.

If you say you have done all the above and still have problems, consider reinventing yourself. Think outside the box you are currently in. Maybe expand your job type focus. For example the psychology major applying for technical positions because he had a knack for computers. Expand your geographic net. Consider relocating for the right opportunity. Consider taking a lower paying job temporarily which allows you to gain valuable Experience you are lacking (see #1). For college students this means interships or part-time jobs which provide relevant exeperience, not working at the mall or student bookstore. Lastly consider service to your country. If not interested in the military consider civil service work. While we are going through bugetary issues work still needs to get done. Take a look here - USAJOBS - The Federal Government's Official Jobs Site

I hope that helps some looking at the corporate side of things here.

Derek

Last edited by MtnSurfer; 02-11-2011 at 02:19 PM..
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:21 PM
JS1
 
1,896 posts, read 6,770,228 times
Reputation: 1622
Thanks! That is very helpful. The only thing that confused me was what any of this has to do with your religion, since you started off with "Being a christian myself I do try to help ppl on CD when I have the time"

I'm a Christian too, but if I weren't, I would be offended at the implication that non-christians are unhelpful people.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, WA
8,217 posts, read 16,710,456 times
Reputation: 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by JS1 View Post
Thanks! That is very helpful. The only thing that confused me was what any of this has to do with your religion, since you started off with "Being a christian myself I do try to help ppl on CD when I have the time"

I'm a Christian too, but if I weren't, I would be offended at the implication that non-christians are unhelpful people.
Yeah, normally I don't mention it. But I wrote this originally responding to chritianguitarist27's thread. He was speaking to his motivation for providing info, which ppl questioned. I know that other ppl including those of many faiths/backgrounds try to help ppl as well. But I'd rather not go down a whole rabbit trail tangent discussing this element in a Work/Employment forum. So to avoid the rabbit trail I'll remove that part.

Now lets get back to the main topic - finding a job!

Derek
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:09 PM
 
935 posts, read 2,412,155 times
Reputation: 470
This is very good advice! Do you mind if I send you a private message with a few questions?
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, WA
8,217 posts, read 16,710,456 times
Reputation: 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by kattwoman2 View Post
This is very good advice! Do you mind if I send you a private message with a few questions?
Sure, I go right ahead.

Derek
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:38 PM
JS1
 
1,896 posts, read 6,770,228 times
Reputation: 1622
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnSurfer View Post
Yeah, normally I don't mention it. But I wrote this originally responding to chritianguitarist27's thread. He was speaking to his motivation for providing info, which ppl questioned. I know that other ppl including those of many faiths/backgrounds try to help ppl as well. But I'd rather not go down a whole rabbit trail tangent discussing this element in a Work/Employment forum. So to avoid the rabbit trail I'll remove that part.

Now lets get back to the main topic - finding a job!

Derek
thanks; you're very helpful!
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:25 PM
 
1,855 posts, read 2,920,043 times
Reputation: 3997
How many applications do you typically get for a single job opening?

And how many of those applicants are actually qualified?
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:35 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,585 posts, read 81,243,006 times
Reputation: 57825
I'm also a hiring manager, but for a public agency of only 1,500 employees. Last night was the deadline to apply for a job we were offering at about $60k. We had a total of 94 applicants, of those 11 met the minimum requirements, and will get interviews. The quickest to be rejected had terrible resumes. One gave the dates of last employer from 11/1/11 to present.

Another gave the objective as: Job Application

Lots of bad spelling and grammar on many of them. Take the time to have someone review your resume and cover letter.
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, WA
8,217 posts, read 16,710,456 times
Reputation: 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howiester View Post
How many applications do you typically get for a single job opening?

And how many of those applicants are actually qualified?
Hi Howiester,

I normally get a subset of the raw total. Here's basically how it works:

1. Someone applies to a position posted on our corporate website
2. A recruiter perfoms an review of these resumes against the job description
3. He sends me a filtered subset which averages ~ 30-40 per opening
4. I review these online looking at the highlights. I scan for key words and skills, especially toward to top of the resume, upper half.
5. I then flip to the back to look at education
6. If I see the possibility for a match I read the resume more in depth
7. For the ones which have potential I set aside and show them to other managers involved. Usually we only have ~3-5 really qualified.
8. For top resumes I schedule a phone interview
9. From the top phone interviews we invite people in to meet fact to face. This interview usually takes up to 4 hours with multiple meetings (different managers)
10. An offer is extended to the top candidate after the managers have a pow wow.

Keep in mind hiring managers are very busy with other tasks. This only accounts for ~ 10% of my job duties. So I don't have time to go through each and every resume top to bottom. That's why you have to have an eye catching resume addressing the primary job description in the first half. Use bullets and get to the point.

For example if I'm hiring someone who needs Windows 2003 Server experience, that better be on the resume under a bullet, not burried in some longer story or toward the bottom. Save longer stories for the interviews. You'll have plenty of time to eleborate then. I'm not saying it has to be only one page. But keep the most relevant stuff for the first part.

Derek
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:42 PM
 
5,652 posts, read 19,357,366 times
Reputation: 4119
In other words, do not bother to apply for a position unless you have about 90% of the qualifications listed. I used this rule of thumb and got interviews for most positions I applied for 2 years ago while unemployed.

What kind of burns me is "experience with XXX is a plus" WELL do we need experience with XXX or NOT? What it says to me (with the fearsome competition out there): DO NOT bother to apply unless you have experience with XXX because there is definitely someone out there that has experience with XXX.

Great tips and insight from the original post.
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