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OK. The Ayn Rand comment is funny, all debating aside for a second. Zenith, I want to see where you will be in 1 year or 2 years with a gap like that. I'm curious about how you'll feel then. Fine, I respect your view. I, however, in 15 years of working and being "semi-nice" realize it definitely won't get me ahead anywhere in New York City. It's dog eat dog here. In the words of Trump, "It's only business, nothing personal."
For example, 4 people having "moral ethics" isn't going to change the one million who don't have moral ethics, especially when that one million holds all the money, power and jobs. You can't change the world and arguing about it is pointless. We all do what we must to survive.For those that don't want to lie, don't lie. Cool.Fine.Maybe you're "lucky" or "privileged". Many of us aren't. Our "hard work" and "truth" hasn't helped us because everybody else is scheming. So if you can't beat t hem, JOIN THEM. Or at least undermine them. But don't preach and indoctrinate the rest of us who don't live by your moral rules. We have our own rules we live by. When the moralists create jobs for the rest of us, instead of just spewing subjective nonsense for the sake of being right, then maybe some of us can consider their way.Maybe then.Until then I seriously laugh at all those moralists who think HR and employers are the Absolute Godhead.
I grew up in poverty with a single mother who had to live with my grandparents and all of us were still in the guidelines for poverty even based on the incomes of all in the household.
I have never felt the need to lie nor aggrandize on my resume. I have worked a many crap job and I have done a lot of networking, begging for experience, and pushing myself for even things uncomfortable so I could learn.
No one is the godhead. However, I stand firmly behind having ethics and integrity. I also believe in Karma-- and I think you may not get caught for lying today but you may in six months or as I stated early your capacity to know the difference between what is truly right or wrong will be so diminished that you end up perpetuating injustice as well. At the end of the day I believe everyone has a day of reckoning where things catch up to them in how they have managed their actions.
OK. The Ayn Rand comment is funny, all debating aside for a second. Zenith, I want to see where you will be in 1 year or 2 years with a gap like that. I'm curious about how you'll feel then. Fine, I respect your view. I, however, in 15 years of working and being "semi-nice" realize it definitely won't get me ahead anywhere in New York City. It's dog eat dog here. In the words of Trump, "It's only business, nothing personal."
Dog eat dog doesn't have to have negative implications. It could just mean trying to be the best you can in order to compete against others in a tight job market. It doesn't need to be about how you can lie the best.
As far as gaps in your employment, I would hope that most managers wouldn't exclude you entirely from the application process over this. They might ask about it, which is fair IMO, but I would hope they aren't disqualifying you completely. Maybe you can also fill in those gaps truthfully with things you've done in your free time (outside of job hunting). Did you take classes? Did you volunteer? The list can go on. Do I guarantee this will work? No, because that would be pretty arrogant on my part to act as if I have the solution to everyone's job search hardships. All I can do is make suggestions as to what might work for you. Not all managers are the same. You may find one that is a little more compassionate towards your situation. It really is a case-by-case trial. Best of luck!
You posted elsewhere that you are thinking of nursing as a possible career? So if you lie on an application, what would stop you from lying about some aspect of patient care? Lying to a fellow nurse about the narcotics count?
If employers were vetting all applications, minutely screening and penalizing those who lied, then by all means do not lie. But if much of your competition lies and employers are not screening them out, then the game is rigged. Lying is in actuality a part of the game. If you don't do whatever you can to create your best impression you are short changing yourself and giving advantage to those who do.
Just, do not lie in ways that would misrepresent your ability to do the job that they need done. Once you are hired, if they are happy with your work the application and resume will not even be an issue.
Most people I have worked with have exaggerated their salaries of their last job on the new application.
The only person I have ever heard of who was actually caught was a woman who worked for a company for years. The company wanted to get rid of her but she had been there for so many years that it was difficult so they looked through her application of years back and found she had lied concerning her age. It is illegal now to ask age but it was not then. Companies can get an idea of your age by the years you attended school, anyway. Poor woman was fired for lying on her application.
There are so many people vying for the same job that companies might fine tooth their criteria to include things that are absurd. The only way to compete is to be as close to perfect as possible, but with things they cannot catch you at.
Usually when they call the old job, because of legal concerns, they are only given the years of a person's employment.
If employers were vetting all applications, minutely screening and penalizing those who lied, then by all means do not lie. But if much of your competition lies and employers are not screening them out, then the game is rigged. Lying is in actuality a part of the game. If you don't do whatever you can to create your best impression you are short changing yourself and giving advantage to those who do.
Just, do not lie in ways that would misrepresent your ability to do the job that they need done. Once you are hired, if they are happy with your work the application and resume will not even be an issue.
Most people I have worked with have exaggerated their salaries of their last job on the new application.
The only person I have ever heard of who was actually caught was a woman who worked for a company for years. The company wanted to get rid of her but she had been there for so many years that it was difficult so they looked through her application of years back and found she had lied concerning her age. It is illegal now to ask age but it was not then. Companies can get an idea of your age by the years you attended school, anyway. Poor woman was fired for lying on her application.
There are so many people vying for the same job that companies might fine tooth their criteria to include things that are absurd. The only way to compete is to be as close to perfect as possible, but with things they cannot catch you at.
Usually when they call the old job, because of legal concerns, they are only given the years of a person's employment.
Someone made a really good point about your resume does not need to serve as a confessional, my apologies to the poster-- I forgot who brought this up.
Omitting granular details from your resume is NOT lying--- lying about experience, education, years of experience (i.e. putting that you worked for 4 years at a company and really only worked 2 years is a lie) are all lies and could be found out easily on a background check.
Perhaps if you are applying at a smaller company who does not invest in background checks you may never be found out-- but most companies I know of including friends who work at smaller law firms do background checks through a third party who will easily verify that if you put down you worked at Corporation A from January 2003 until December 2008, that you actually did work there.
Now if you made a mistake and put December 2002-- or February 2003 then there is usually leniency there (after all now I can't remember all of the exact dates of my hire in some older positions), but in general that is as lenient as it comes.
Ironically-- I am applying to MBA schools right now. One of my school applications is being prepared for Duke's EMBA. I noticed that they engage a third party background check company to ensure that even MBA executive candidates are not falsifying their application. Interesting indeed.
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