Jewish Communities Outside the Sephardi/Ashkenzi Paradigm (Sabbath, Israel, food)
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I have a question that has more to do with anthropology and ethnography than religion.
A few months ago I had the great pleasure of visiting an interesting synagogue in New York City's lower east side on Broome Street and given a personal tour by the director of the place. It was called Kahila Kadosha Janina synogogue. It was established more than a century ago by the small but vibrant Jewish Community originally from Ioannina, Greece (pronounced Yah-nee-nah, spelled "Janina" by the French). Ioannina is not a small town but actually one of the larger cities in Greece and the provincial capital of Epirus, located in the mountains of northern Greece near Albania. It has a University and is a tourist destination for Europeans.
The Jews of the city of Ioannina, and the province of Epirus, are mostly NOT Sephardim ... unlike Thessaloniki. Their language was not Ladino, but rather a dialect of Classical Greek. They are a separate branch of Jews called Romaniotes, and they have been living in northern Greece for about 2,000 years. It is said a Jewish colony was established right around the time of the destruction of the Second Temple. I'm told they are called Romaniotes because this Jewish community was actually granted full Roman citizenship by one of the Emperors, which was considered a great honor and accomplishment for a foreign group living in the conquered provinces. The Romaniote Jews have their own traditions, music, and cuisine which are unique and not like other Jewish communities.
Another group of "outsider" Jews are those known as "Cochin" Jews from the city of Kochi, in South India. Again, I had the pleasure of visiting Kochin on one of my several trips to India during the past decade and a half. The vast majority emigrated to Israel once Independence was declared, but there still is a tiny remnant of perhaps 20 Jews left in Kochi. Their synagogue is a museum and they can only manage to get together a minyin when some visiting Israelis or Jewish tourists from the diaspora show up before the sabbath.
Is anyone else here interested in these "exotic" communities of Jewish people?
I have a question that has more to do with anthropology and ethnography than religion.
A few months ago I had the great pleasure of visiting an interesting synagogue in New York City's lower east side on Broome Street and given a personal tour by the director of the place. It was called Kahila Kadosha Janina synogogue. It was established more than a century ago by the small but vibrant Jewish Community originally from Ioannina, Greece (pronounced Yah-nee-nah, spelled "Janina" by the French). Ioannina is not a small town but actually one of the larger cities in Greece and the provincial capital of Epirus, located in the mountains of northern Greece near Albania. It has a University and is a tourist destination for Europeans.
The Jews of the city of Ioannina, and the province of Epirus, are mostly NOT Sephardim ... unlike Thessaloniki. Their language was not Ladino, but rather a dialect of Classical Greek. They are a separate branch of Jews called Romaniotes, and they have been living in northern Greece for about 2,000 years. It is said a Jewish colony was established right around the time of the destruction of the Second Temple. I'm told they are called Romaniotes because this Jewish community was actually granted full Roman citizenship by one of the Emperors, which was considered a great honor and accomplishment for a foreign group living in the conquered provinces. The Romaniote Jews have their own traditions, music, and cuisine which are unique and not like other Jewish communities.
Another group of "outsider" Jews are those known as "Cochin" Jews from the city of Kochi, in South India. Again, I had the pleasure of visiting Kochin on one of my several trips to India during the past decade and a half. The vast majority emigrated to Israel once Independence was declared, but there still is a tiny remnant of perhaps 20 Jews left in Kochi. Their synagogue is a museum and they can only manage to get together a minyin when some visiting Israelis or Jewish tourists from the diaspora show up before the sabbath.
Is anyone else here interested in these "exotic" communities of Jewish people?
Care to share information about them?
Yes, The Romoniate Jewish community in Greece is a unique Jewish community and they predate ancient Roman times. Sadly Many Greek Jews of all Jewish ethnic divided groups were killed off by the Nazis. Some Jews of all communities exist in Greece but many left for Israel and the USA.
There are so many unique Jewish communities that don't fit into either Sephardim or Azkhenazim.
Tenamim (Yemen/Oman) and Italkim (Italy) have interesting unique distinct Jewish communities as well.
There are so many unique Jewish communities that don't fit into either Sephardim or Azkhenazim.
And what's left is Mizrahi Jews who's lineage never went to Europe, Russia, Poland, etc... Ethnically they are from Israel and the countries to the East of it.
Can "Jewish" communities that were isolated from the rest of the Jewish world for over 1500 years truly be considered Jewish? The chain of oral transmission of the Torah would have been broken at a point before the closing of the Talmud. A lot of these "Jewish" communities seem to be "primitive" in terms of their halachic observance, almost Karaite. E.g. they wouldn't know how much of a married woman's hair needed to be covered, or what amount of food needs to be consumed before a bracha (blessing) needs to be said. It also seems like a lot of these communities are patrilineal or with uncertain ancestry. Most Ashkenazi Orthodox poskim (decisors) say that any such people from these communities needs to go through a formal Orthodox conversion in order to be considered Jewish. A gerut l'chumra (token conversion to remove doubt) would not suffice.
Can "Jewish" communities that were isolated from the rest of the Jewish world for over 1500 years truly be considered Jewish? The chain of oral transmission of the Torah would have been broken at a point before the closing of the Talmud. A lot of these "Jewish" communities seem to be "primitive" in terms of their halachic observance, almost Karaite. E.g. they wouldn't know how much of a married woman's hair needed to be covered, or what amount of food needs to be consumed before a bracha (blessing) needs to be said. It also seems like a lot of these communities are patrilineal or with uncertain ancestry. Most Ashkenazi Orthodox poskim (decisors) say that any such people from these communities needs to go through a formal Orthodox conversion in order to be considered Jewish. A gerut l'chumra (token conversion to remove doubt) would not suffice.
Let's take that question in reverse. Why should the Ashkenazi version of Judaism be seen as more right than the version the Mizrahi's who lived closest to where the original Jews came from. Mizrahi Jews only had to contend with minor deviations from their customs, while Ashkenazi's had to contend with numerous deviations and had to create more rules in order to keep themselves as more separate.
I think both of those are very interesting questions. If I recall, after serious discussion and investigation, beta Israel was allowed to enter Israel and was deemed "Jewish." I would assume these other secluded groups would as well right?
I think both of those are very interesting questions. If I recall, after serious discussion and investigation, beta Israel was allowed to enter Israel and was deemed "Jewish." I would assume these other secluded groups would as well right?
I don't think the actions of the Israeli government can be taken into consideration when deciding the Halacha. Israel isn't exactly a makom Torah (place of Torah behavior) outside of a few neighborhoods in yerushalayim.
I hope no one here is questioning the authenticity of the Jewishness of the Romaniote Community. Over the centuries they in fact were in contact with other Jewish communities but held fast to their unique language, Yevanic - a dialect of Classical Greek written with Hebrew characters. A few Sephardim did migrate to the province of Epirus (although most settled in other parts of Greece most notably Thessalonika) and I understand the native Romaniotes considered them "newcomers" to Judaism and not practicing the original or pure version of the religion.
And what's left is Mizrahi Jews who's lineage never went to Europe, Russia, Poland, etc... Ethnically they are from Israel and the countries to the East of it.
True. Ethiopians, Lemba, and other tribes and groups found in Africa are other good examples.
Let's take that question in reverse. Why should the Ashkenazi version of Judaism be seen as more right than the version the Mizrahi's who lived closest to where the original Jews came from. Mizrahi Jews only had to contend with minor deviations from their customs, while Ashkenazi's had to contend with numerous deviations and had to create more rules in order to keep themselves as more separate.
Thank you!
+1
I've been saying the same since forever.
Point. Set. Match.
Amen
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