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Just wondering what the consensus here amongst JEWS (sorry Hiker, I'm not interested in the zarim perspective).
Personally, I believe that a united Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is imperative for the Jewish state.
I also find it disgusting that we are expected to give back land won in war to our enemies that wish our destruction.
Also, feel free to comment about other land like Chevron (Hebron) or the part of Bait Lachem (Bethlehem) that houses Kever Rachel (Rachel's Tomb) in this thread, but the polling is only about Jerusalem.
Once the war started in 1949 and we had the upper hand, we should have never allowed the UN to create a Armistice line where Arabs were allowed to stay in their homes on the Israeli side yet all Jews were evicted from the Arab side. Then in 1967 we took the territories and made the same mistake again. Jews should have taken back land owned by Jews before 1948, taken the land owned by JNF and taken the cities we wanted. The Arabs that lived there before 1948 are not the same as the ones that moved there after the Armistice. The ones that were there before 1948 should have been allowed to stay and the rest should have been evicted. The entire West Bank should have been annexed at that point. The Gaza Strip wasn't needed for anything and should have simply been given to the UN and let it be their problem. To keep on trying to take the ethical or moral high ground among Arabs that had 20 years to hate Jews more then when they had no contact with them has not done well over the past 47 years. Israel needs to dictate its own destiny as any Arab country does around them. Jerusalem is ours. The other areas are difficult to hold due to the problem I stated earlier related to 1967, so fully taking them now will not be easy to hold.
The Treaty with Jordan is sort of still in place and if keeping Peace requires that they secure the Temple Mount then so be it. But we should be able to walk and pray up there. It's our land and no one should dictate to Israel what to do. If the US wants to meddle in Israel, give them the $3B back and show them the exit door. As to the Gaza Strip, there are no Jews there and should be completely cut off from Israel. Let it be a Egypt or UN problem. The Egypt Treaty is basically decimated at this point as the Treaty is nearly now a complete loss from the Israel POV.
I'd also post my seconding (now thirding) of Pruz well written words. To me, Eretz Yisroel and Medinat Yisroel have different meanings, but in no version is one to give up G-ds land. And flipflop, while I agree about going on the temple mount, it pains me every day to see it in others control.
Yes, keeping land such as Chevron would be impossible due to it pretty much being an Island right now as far as sovereign Israeli territory goes. I think keeping Kever Rachel is more likely due to the way the security fence has been built around it.
Yes, I agree Pour, HaMedinat Yisrael and Eretz Yisrael are too totally different things. Our brothers and sisters bled for the security of the State, and I would be none too happy if some bull**** compromise came through that put them in harms way to save face in the UN.
Ditto was Pruz said (except I don't think Jews have any business being in the Temple Mount).
Keep in mind that the only Jews who tempt fate and go up there are TOJ Jews. They put everyone at the Kotel in danger each and every time they go up there. The Jordanian Police up there are for show, and have a limited quantity of officers that can actually do anything. Thus Israel has to send a few hundred Police officers to bring order in which that makes the world news instead of the rock throwers and TOJs who started it. If it weren't for the TOJs going up there, then there would be no reason for the rock throwers to be there either followed by the Police.
I can go further and state Jerusalem is actually a region according to Ottoman maps and not Christian maps. But I don't know how far the OP wants to cover. So I'll just stay within the borders the OP set for this thread.
How about we wait for others to actually put some input into this thread while I fly West over Norway, enjoy dinner get a little shlafen and hit the next strong signal over Iceland. At which point we can discuss the so called "Settlements" and their relationship to the area around Jerusalem.
Keep in mind that according to Ottoman maps, Jerusalem ran from the Transjordan river to the ocean and from a little north of the Gaza Strip to basically Bat Yam.
(sorry Hiker, I'm not interested in the zarim perspective).
Too bad, I answered already.
What's 'zarim'?
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