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Are you referring to writings such as Revelations? If so, i agree. I think John was referring to the Romans.
Well you can include that book. Yes, contrary to the belief of many Christians who think the book is all about them and these times, the writer was speaking of his day and age and the hated Roman Empire which he referred to in cryptic language familiar to the Jews, as Babylon.
I was thinking more along the lines of similar apocalyptic books such as Enoch and Jubilees.
What would be the ancient homeland of the peoples we now refer to as Palestinians? Are they actually of the same lineage as modern day Israeli Jews. Simply seperated by religion?
The term "Palestinian" is not an equivalent of "Hebrew". "Palestine" is a Roman name that was given to the region after the Bar-Kohba revolt in order to humiliate Jews, and refers to the Philistines, who were a Hellenic people, not a Semitic one. Since modern Palestinians preserve no part of the Philistine culture, nor its language, nor its religion, I don't think they can really claim to be their heirs (as some do).
There is a disagreement of how many of today's Palestinians' ancestors actually lived in Palestine at the turn of the 20th century. There were some, sure, but how many? I really can't go any further into that without setting off some triggers here, so let's just say the jury is still out. Erich Zeren in The Crescent and the Bull, citing the diaries of late 19th-century British archaeologists, describes the Holy Land as pretty much desolate. I refer to Zeren because he was neither Jewish or Arab nor Muslim; an archaeologist and an historian of antiquity, not an advocate or a politician; because he wrote before the 1st Intifadeh; and because the book really isn't about that at all, and the desolation of Palestine is mentioned as a tangent, in passing. Such comments are now anathema, and I think it's one of the reasons Zeren is out of print. In any event, after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire and the establishment of the British Mandate, there was considerable immigration into the area, and not just by Jews. Attracted by the prosperity and infrastructure, both improved under the British rule, Arabs immigrated and bought land there as well, and some of them became today's Palestinians. In fact, until the establishment of the State of Israel, the term "Palestinian" referred to anyone who lived in the Mandate, regardless of ethnicity or religion -- so the Jews were "Palestinian" as well. Many Palestinians have roots in Syria and Jordan. Some are descendants of ancient Hebrews who initially converted to Christianity, then to Islam, but I suspect they are a small minority.
I don't know. I support every people's right to self-determination, and I believe that Palestinians should have a state, just not at the expense of denying Jews their self-determination or their security. That said, however, Palestinians emerged as a people quite recently, and I don't think they are an equivalent of Jews in terms of unique history, cultural cohesiveness, language, etc. Where is the Palestinians' ancient homeland? If there was a people known as Palestinians (or some equivalent) in, say, 4th century BC, then I could tell you.
That's interesting -- that's exactly the reasoning behind Christianity's and Islam's claim not only to the Holy Land, but to the entire Planet Earth. What do you have to say about that?
Oh yeah well god told me I can have whatever I want...so nah-nah-nah
What do you mean by power and money being "behind such a claim"?
I do believe he was mixing up his centuries, if you know what I mean. I come to this conclusion because there certainly wasn't much "power and money" floating around the vicinity of the Jordan River 3,000 years ago.
The problem with "giving" of Israel to the Jews by God is that they still had to conquer it with the supposed "help" of God.
Pretty much like the so called "mission from God" of America wrt to Iraq. When you are supposedly doing for a greater cause than that of the "king", it is easier to recruit people to die for that cause, nevermind that down the line, the wheel turns and what goes around comes around.
Just like the Jews were booted out of Israel by the invading forces, so too will America exit Iraq.
If Israel was the promised land, why were they taken into captivity so many time and booted out of the promised land?
Oh of course, it was God's will - pretty much a no-lose situation for their "god" as when things go well it is His will and when things do not go well it is His will.
Having lived in three former British colonies, all I can say is that where ever they the Brits put their feet, they royally screwed up that land in the long run.
History has always been recorded by the victors and not the vanquished. Lucky today, information is more readily available and it is becoming more difficult to lie about the facts.
The problem with "giving" of Israel to the Jews by God is that they still had to conquer it with the supposed "help" of God.
Pretty much like the so called "mission from God" of America wrt to Iraq. When you are supposedly doing for a greater cause than that of the "king", it is easier to recruit people to die for that cause, nevermind that down the line, the wheel turns and what goes around comes around.
Just like the Jews were booted out of Israel by the invading forces, so too will America exit Iraq.
If Israel was the promised land, why were they taken into captivity so many time and booted out of the promised land?
Oh of course, it was God's will - pretty much a no-lose situation for their "god" as when things go well it is His will and when things do not go well it is His will.
Having lived in three former British colonies, all I can say is that where ever they the Brits put their feet, they royally screwed up that land in the long run.
History has always been recorded by the victors and not the vanquished. Lucky today, information is more readily available and it is becoming more difficult to lie about the facts.
I must have said the bolded above like 47 times on the site yesterday.
Now let's look at something else here. Let' assume the biblical account of Israel's acquisition of land of Canaan is indeed true. How did they get it? By butchering their way into it on the propaganda that the people living there were abominable savages (where have we seen this later on in history?) It is interesting to note that the Canaanites were minding their own business when the Israelites, under Joshua, came in and massacred the population. This according to the Bible.
If we go back a little further, Abraham supposedly enters the land as a foreigner and purchases some plots of land. All of a sudden we are told that through some PERSONAL revelation from some god, he is promised the whole swath of land between the Euphrates and Egypt. His descendants apparently take this serious and march into the land hundreds of years later and kill off the inhabitants and assume control according to the Bible. They do so on the idea the land was promised to their ancestor, not by the actual people living there, but by some invisible god in a conversation no one else is privy to to corraborate.
Fast forward a few thousand years later and what was part of the argument used to get a footing back in Palestine? How are the inhabitants they met there doing today?
Maybe I'm just dumb, but I could swear I see a pattern here. Then again, what do I know? They say God works in mysterious ways and the Jews tell us they they are God's special people so who am I to find fault? I really have nothing against the people personally and like with any other group, I'm sure they have a fine bunch of people but PLEASE, don't insult our intelligence.
yes, to quote "And then God said, I bestow upon my people, the Jews, this land that is yours and only yours because I too, encourage division among men."
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What do you have to say about that?
