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I was reading on the Devil thread that Jews believe God has control over Satan...I think that was the idea. And that Satan can't actually do what God doesn't want him to do. Someone else said, I believe, that Satan is actually an agent of God's who is sent around to put tests in front of people. I can't say with 100% certainty that this was credited to Judaism and my memory of the other thread is failing fast, especially since it had so much information. ETA: There was also an idea that God created both good and bad and that it wasn't Adam and Eve's responsibility that there is bad in the world. Is that a basic Jewish tenet? Or was it just one specific person's theory?
I was wondering how this is reconciled with the Old Testament but didn't want to sound stupid for asking, because I'm not sure the OT and the Torah are written exactly the same way...are they?
Anyway...if they are, how do you see the serpent in the Garden of Eden? Would that mean he isn't Satan? Because the way it's written (in the OT, anyway), it seems the serpent is going totally against God's will.
This is an honest question and I'm not of some other religion hoping to discredit the Jewish faith. Actually, I'm just fascinated with this because I had always been led to believe the OT and the Torah are the same, but I've never read the Torah so I don't actually know if that's right.
The word "Torah" is a tricky one, because it can mean different things in different contexts. In its most limited sense, "Torah" refers to the Five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. But the word "torah" can also be used to refer to the entire Jewish bible (the body of scripture known to non-Jews as the Old Testament and to Jews as the Tanakh or Written Torah), or in its broadest sense, to the whole body of Jewish law and teachings
As the only practicing Jew on here (as far as I know), I guess I should attempt to answer your question... but unfortunately I'm far from a "scholar", so I don't know how well I could! I do know that the Torah is the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, or Old Testament as Christians refer to it (we don't use that term, since it implies acceptance of the "new" Bible) - so I suppose it would be the same text, but in the original Hebrew language. Here are some good sources on this question, which will answer better than I can.
As for your question about the Devil, we're actually kind of vague & confusing on that one - LOL. But we do not believe in Satan or a Devil, at least not in the sense that Christians do... the serpent represented general temptation, and the knowledge that all humans are capable of sin. So it's more of a philosophy than an actual representation or "evil being". Here's a thorough article on that, which probably contradicts some of what I just said (which was simply taken from my rusty memories!)
P.S. I had to read from the Torah for my Bat-Mitzvah, and boy was that a challenge! Even for somebody like myself who reads Hebrew proficiently, that is quite a task.
gizmo, I get a visual of a 13-year-old boy standing there in front of 300 of his closest relatives, expected to deliver his Hebrew with perfection, LOL. Poor thing, but I'll bet you did awesome.
gizmo, I get a visual of a 13-year-old boy standing there in front of 300 of his closest relatives, expected to deliver his Hebrew with perfection, LOL. Poor thing, but I'll bet you did awesome.
LOL... visual is about right, except for the fact that I was a 13 year-old girl. It was a bit scary, but that's all part of the deal! And for the boys, it's also a requirement to have your voice crack right in the middle - I swear that's why they make you do it at 13.
LOL... visual is about right, except for the fact that I was a 13 year-old girl. It was a bit scary, but that's all part of the deal! And for the boys, it's also a requirement to have your voice crack right in the middle - I swear that's why they make you do it at 13.
Oh I have been to many Bat-Mitzvah and Bar-Mitzvah ceremonies....I always felt so bad for my friends that had to do speak in Hebrew...when they did not do it accept at Hebrew school, quite nerve racking I'm sure. But I have to say those were some of the best parties I had been to at that age...always a great time.
Oh I have been to many Bat-Mitzvah and Bar-Mitzvah ceremonies....I always felt so bad for my friends that had to do speak in Hebrew...when they did not do it accept at Hebrew school, quite nerve racking I'm sure. But I have to say those were some of the best parties I had been to at that age...always a great time.
Yes, the Jews do know how to party! My Bat-Mitzvah was probably more nerve-wracking than some, since our Temple actually made us lead the WHOLE service - rather than just reading Torah & Haftorah portions, like most Synagogues. I did stay fairly calm, considering...
And my party was great, I must say, but my brother's was probably the coolest... we rented an entire athletic club, and had a night-time sports party. The boys & men were in heaven!
LOL... visual is about right, except for the fact that I was a 13 year-old girl. It was a bit scary, but that's all part of the deal! And for the boys, it's also a requirement to have your voice crack right in the middle - I swear that's why they make you do it at 13.
That is sooooo completely interesting to me
I had NO idea that girls partook in Bah mitzvas Facinating
I always thought it was a "rite of passage"for men
learn somethin new everyday
I have questions for Jewsih people so i really hope Gizmo comes back to read
Do reformed Jews still have 2 separate Kitchens?
(I didn't say some of them wouldn't be trivial)
Why would Jewish people use the Bible as a guide if the new testament goes against their practice of who the Messiah is, would the information you need be in the Old testament alone and is the OT the same as the Torah?
What happened to the 23 other books spoken of in the OT
EG= Book of the Wars of the Lord--Numbers 21:14-15
Book of Jasher II Samuel 1:18
aren't these required readings in addition to the Torah and therefore seeing as the OT is the same as the Torah wouldn't it be required reading for Christians as well?
I am humbly asking these questions for knowledge
not to be argumentative in any sort
please inform me if what I ask is inappropriate
I had NO idea that girls partook in Bah mitzvas Facinating
I always thought it was a "rite of passage"for men
learn somethin new everyday
In more traditional sects, and "back in the day", it was a ceremony reserved for boys... then Reform & some Conservative synagogues adopted the Bat-Mitzvah for girls, but it was slow to catch on until the '50s or so. My mother's temple didn't have them when she was 13, which is something she's always been unhappy about. Oh, and in case you don't know, "Bat" means daughter (of the commandments) and "Bar" means son. Here's some interesting reading on this topic: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../firstbat.html
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ETA: There was also an idea that God created both good and bad and that it wasn't Adam and Eve's responsibility that there is bad in the world. Is that a basic Jewish tenet? Or was it just one specific person's theory?
Oh, and in case you don't know, "Bat" means daughter (of the commandments) and "Bar" means son. Here's some interesting reading on this topic: 
