You're thinking about moving to Kansas City? DON'T!! (Madison: unemployment rate, college)

[kcmo]

I have been everywhere (at least in the US) and I find KC to be average to above average. There are a few cities that seem to have more attractive women, DC being one of them, but also Denver and Seattle come to mind, but KC is fine. Go to Kauffman stadium for a ballgame in the summer and you will see that KC has plenty of attractive women.

Now I have noticed that the rural areas of Missouri (like over 30-40 miles from the metro) the women seem heavier, but I don't know if that actually a fact or not.

[Bluefox]

Originally Posted by jason87x

Couldn't help but notice my whiny immature thread being linked in here. Since then I've grown up quite a bit. No one place is completely perfect or completely awful. Each city (metro area) has its pros and cons. Where I am now has better women and worse gay guys, KC has better gay guys and worse women (IMO, and since the dating scene is often mentioned in these threads). I still do think there are differences in how people behave in different types of cities, but it can be hard to make friends pretty much anywhere, especially if you don't have your own life together, are new to a metro area, and aren't focusing on what kind of friends/scene you want (acting like a shotgun with the people you talk to).

In Dallas, I like the weather, the low taxes, good jobs, ethnic restaurants, and straight people, but I also miss JoCo's trails and trees, gay guys that will actually talk to you, certain churches, abundance of indie coffee places, and certain places in KC itself. The close-knit-ness that I bashed in my earlier thread is a double-edged sword (has good and bad), as is the rather transient nature of sunbelt metros. I like in transient Dallas that if I make a mistake with someone, no one else outside their tiny circle will find out, however I also miss the coherent community feel I found more often in KC suburbia.

I made a trip back (see other recent thread) to see the parents on Thanksgiving, and was fairly impressed with the changes I've seen since moving away.

I just moved to KC two months ago from SoCal (also gay). I'm getting ready to head down to Dallas for training for a month and a half though so I found your post interesting. So far I've found most of the gay guys and ladies I have met to be very friendly. I've met a couple gay guys that have been just incredibly self-absorbed, petty, judgmental, etc. but that's absolutely nothing new and I think it has little to do with the geographic location and is more about certain conditions that apply to the gay community as a whole.

All of the women in KC I've met have been very nice, and yes there are plenty of attractive ladies here too. I also agree with the some of the aforementioned posts about there being a much less superficial/pretentious vibe here and more of a down-to-earth vibe, not just from the natives but from the transplants as well. I've overall just really been impressed with the quality of the people here. Again I won't presume that it's necessarily because of being KC, it could just be the people I've met so far, but I'm definitely not complaining.

[GraniteStater]

Interesting how many of these posts pertain to how the population of KC compares to the West Coast (especially California), instead of how KC compares to the Midwest or East Coast.

[luzianne]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Interesting how many of these posts pertain to how the population of KC compares to the West Coast (especially California), instead of how KC compares to the Midwest or East Coast.

I would say that it is because someone commented that they were from Sacramento and found women in KC just as attractive as in California and other people chimed in with their own experiences regarding KC women as opposed to CA women. Were you upset that no one had mentioned Wisconsin?

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by luzianne

I would say that it is because someone commented that they were from Sacramento and found women in KC just as attractive as in California and other people chimed in with their own experiences regarding KC women as opposed to CA women. Were you upset that no one had mentioned Wisconsin?

No, but it is quite obvious that KC receives a greater percentage of transplants from the Southwest compared to the rest of the Midwest.

[Versatile]

Originally Posted by kcmo

^ Kansas City is basically a collection of midwestern suburbs with a handful of "big city" attractions mixed in. Having lived on the east coast now for several years, I do notice some of what is being said here.

But unless you lived there in the 80's and 90's, you have NO IDEA how much better is it today than it was then. KC was probably the only city that truly gave Detroit a run for its money as far as urban decay and blight. Even places like St Louis and Baltimore had and still have more vibrant and thriving urban core and inner suburban neighborhoods than KC did and those places were also able to build transit systems, build and maintain museums, sports venues etc while KC was literally rotting away till the late 90's.

Not everybody will like KC. It seems rather sleepy to me now. I mean, there is almost no traffic there, even on city streets. Downtown, Midtown during the business day is empty for a city of its size and the amount of underutilized space and land (even urban land) is mind boggling. It's just not a "busy" city at all and most people there are actually scared of even the idea of it becoming a busy, bustling city (the way they love KCI, the deadest, most depressing airport in the US now, is a great example of this).

But.....things change very slowly there and they are still changing for the better. KC had a LONG way to come back.

Just 15 years ago, the crossroads was nearly entirely vacant, liberty memorial as falling down, union station was nearly boarded up, 18th and Vine was ghetto, midtown was ghetto filled with "projects", the river key was dangerous and full of XXX theaters, 75% of the buildings over 10 stories downtown were vacant or used as haunted houses, downtown kc was just a few skyscrapers and a whole bunch of run down crap and parking lots, crumbling police and fire stations, the royals and chiefs were threatening to leave town after KC has already lost the NHL and NBA, kemper was falling down and lost 80% of its events including the prized Big 12 Tourneys, Bartle Hall was deteriorating and KC lost most of its large conventions dropping to a fourth tier convention city, the zoo was an embarrassment and became uncredited and was at risk of closing, KC was the largest city without a science museum, one of the largest without rail transit, the nelson had not changed since the 30's, KCMO despite having 40% of its land vacant was losing residents (unheard of), nearly all of the metro's freeways and major bridges were in deplorable shape, sidewalks and traffic signals were crumbling, street lights were barley working if they existed at all, many airlines tried, but none could ever make a hub work at kci mainly due to its terrible design (still a problem), KCMO and KCK combined had an incredible amount of homicides and high crime, KCK had nothing at all going for it (not even village west), the Northland was not growing despite incredible location, Independence was the meth capital of the country, JoCo was boring as hell with its top attraction being a rather bland oak park mall, Penn Valley Park, Swope Park etc were places you just did not go, brush creek on the plaza was a graffiti and bum filled concrete canal, the Northland finally took off and has become KCMO's answer to something to compete with JoCo, KCK still has urban core issues, but has been able to do some incredible things out west that maybe someday will lead to more investment in the city east of 435.

For the reasons I just listed, I can see why so many in JoCo and other suburbs were so hateful towards KC for most of my time living there. I think by 1990 or so everybody had lost any faith that anything outside of outer suburbia had a fighting chance. But it was still my home and I just couldn't join the crowd and do nothing but hate and bash on KCMO and KCK.

I would visit other cities and come back to KC and HATE it every time. It was so easy to just join with others and just say KC sucks, nothing can be done, but Johnson County is god's gift to the world and it makes up for such a ****ty urban core!

Instead, I stayed in KCMO, bought a home in waldo, and I did everything I could to change it. I was deeply involved in every single civil project in KCMO from Union Station to the East Village and Light Rail.

People in KC still don't understand just how much Mayor Barnes did for KC. They should rename the city after her, she freaking saved the city. But most people there despise her because she was pro change and pro development and simply RROgressive.

KC in a few short years literally blossomed overnight into a city where residents can be proud of the city again. New bridges cross the rivers, new sidewalks, new traffic signals, a city wide street light system was installed, MAX buses were initiated, the stadiums were rebuilt and the sports teams locked into leases, the city built a new downtown arena and it became one of the world's most successful, a huge entertainment district downtown replacing parking lots and haunted houses, the crossroads district is a vibrant neighborhood, dozens and dozens of downtown buildings were reopened and converted to housing, freeways were rebuilt, bartle was expanded, a huge ballroom was built, the performing arts center was built, the nelson was expanded, the zoo was massively expanded and eventually properly funded by a MO side regional tax, union station was saved by what would be the last time KS and MO worked together. So sad because Union Station is a huge success story and the original renovation was a flawless well run project, a science center was built (although because it was not funded by the bistate tax it had struggled reach its potential), the negro leagues museum and jazz museum was built, the college basketball experience was built, Swope Park, Penn Valley Park etc cleaned up, new police and fire stations built all across town, the amazing WWI museum was built and liberty memorial restored, brush creek was turned into a beautiful river walk (although still ignored by locals), Midtown, River Market etc is being gentrified, new residential construction is finally starting to occur north of the plaza, there is a streetcar line under construction, I can go on and on. I mean, KC might actually have a decent amount of people on sidewalks, using bike lanes etc outside the plaza in the near future!

My point is that it’s easy to be hard on KC if you travel a lot and spend time in other major cities. KC may never again catch up to cities it once dwarfed in size and culture (Denver, Seattle, Minneapolis, Charlotte etc), but it’s come a long way and if it keeps on pace and the people there don’t mess it up, in another 10-15 years, KC could be one of those cities people envy. Personally, the state line is the one thing that is keeping that from happening because the metro just can't focus on things like other cities do. The metro is always trying to pull itself apart rather than get on the same page. But despite that huge drag on the metro, the city of KCMO has done nearly a 180 and people should take notice of that.

We believed Kay Barnes when she was campaigning to be mayor. Barnes was very heavy on the WE ARE NOT CLOSING THE RICHARDS GEBAUR AIRPORT! As son as she got elected she flip flopped on it and they closed it.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by Versatile

We believed Kay Barnes when she was campaigning to be mayor. Barnes was very heavy on the WE ARE NOT CLOSING THE RICHARDS GEBAUR AIRPORT! As son as she got elected she flip flopped on it and they closed it.

Well I think you have to keep things in perspective. I really do think she was trying to do what was in the best interest of the city and sometimes in order to do that, you have reconsider your stance on situations and you will no doubt have to flip flop or **** a few people off in the process.

As a person that loves to fly, and is extremely supportive of civilian airports, when you know the details of Richards Gebaur and the economics tied to it, then things are not as easy as just keeping it open because private pilots like it or because the locals liked the annual air show there. Especially when converting an aging closed air force base into a general aviation airport. You don't need a 10,000 foot long runway for a few Cessnas based at the airport.

Personally, I thought it was a bad idea to just turn the airport over to KC Southern the way they did. I think most people know how I feel about all the corporate welfare in KC and this was no exception. KC Southern got a sweet deal, but I’m not sure the city really had much of a choice as it was the best use at the time and the area is already pretty industrial. A better alternative would have been to build a massive mixed use master planned community on the site because such chances to do so don’t happen often, but I think Centerpoint and KCS will eventually turn the airport area into a successful industrial and warehouse park while the airport before was nothing but a drain on KCMO’s aviation budget and becoming a blight to that area of the metro. Also building on the airport grounds and removing the runway rather than using it for the inter modal facility would have cost too much and taken decades to complete.

While RG had a nice long runway, everything else about the airport was in terrible shape and the runway needed major repairs to continue to operate and in order to keep it open, it would have taken money from MCI and MKC just to keep a few pilots happy. RG was not going to compete well with other south metro airports anyway (like JoCo Executive, New Century and Lee’s Summit) which were more established as civilian airports and better funded and maintained.

At the same time, MKC (Downtown) was starting to lose customers to suburban airports, its runways needed repairs, its hangers needed to be replaced and it needed a ton of safety enhancements do to its landlocked location to remain a viable corporate/GA airport. The city made the right choice and rather than throw money at both RG and MKC and not get much return out of either, the city decided to close RG and turn that into an industrial park and completely rebuild MKC. The FAA allowed KCMO to redirect the money that was to go to RG to MKC.

MKC has since rebuilt both its runways and built an EMAS system so that it can continue to operate corporate jets and other commercial service which were close to being taken away from MKC do to new FAA rules. MKC also remodeled the historic terminal, and tore down and built brand new state of the art hangers. The airport also built Hanger 10, a modern terminal with a restaurant etc for corporate jets and other business use.

MKC has since returned to being one of the country’s nicest and most convenient center city airports that is very important to the economy of KCMO and especially downtown KCMO. Even most large companies based in the suburbs keep their corporate jets at downtown airport and there is once again a waiting list for hanger space for private small planes. MCI continues to operate flight schools, many helicopters and even commercial flights use the airport for unscheduled flights (including international customs flights). None of this would have happened if the city kept RG open and a few dozen private pilots happy. The city would just have two crappy general aviation airports. I really think Barnes made the right choice and she had to go against what most people in the city wanted because most people just don't know all the details and long term economic impacts of decisions like this. Good mayors have to go against what the general population wants and Barnes did that often. Otherwise today there would be no renovated downtown, no sprint center, no expanded Bartel hall, no P&L district etc and the same thing is probably going to happen with KCI and is already happening with the streetcar lines. If you let the public run the city, nothing will ever change and nothing progressive will ever happen.

Barnes was a great mayor and I think she even put KC's future before her own career by not trying to be everything to everybody and making tough choices for the future of KC. She will forever be labeled as a corrupt and in bed with developers in most people's minds. In my mind, she saved KCMO and KC could use a few more leaders like her.

[Versatile]

They just did not want to spend any money on it because of the behind closed doors agreement. So you actually think it is ok for her to lie to us. They could have kept RG open as a commercial big airplane airport. To me 10,000 ft runway is an asset not a liability. They could have Southern railroads deal on the west side of the runway and ground to the west. I don't like liars. They stopped the Balloon fests out there when the last one drew in 850,000 people total. That is some real money the KCMO lost out on.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by Versatile

They just did not want to spend any money on it because of the behind closed doors agreement. So you actually think it is ok for her to lie to us. They could have kept RG open as a commercial big airplane airport. To me 10,000 ft runway is an asset not a liability. They could have Southern railroads deal on the west side of the runway and ground to the west. I don't like liars. They stopped the Balloon fests out there when the last one drew in 850,000 people total. That is some real money the KCMO lost out on.

Would you say the same thing to Sly James if he promised to keep the Bannister Mall open before the Cerner proposal?

I totally understand what you are saying. The city simply could not have kept open RG AND rebuilt MKC. I personally think she made the right choice. KC already had an established industrial type airport (New Century) with a long runway surrounded by warehouse parks and I'm not sure that runway really has a lot of interaction with the surrounding industrial development. It's not like there is a major Fed Ex facility there or something. Even if RG remained open it would have just been a little GA airport with a long runway and little more and it would have hurt the long term success of MKC. Balloon festivals and airshows are not huge net revenue gains for the city, they are a wash at best after expenses. The airshow is downtown now (plus the one at Whiteman) and the Balloon Fest is in western KCK last I heard.

I think the city did the right thing. You can disagree and I respect your opinion.

[jason87x]

So far I think Dallas has better women, and KC has better gay guys.