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Thanks for posting this kcmo. I watched the first 5 minutes and can't wait to watch the rest this evening. We debate/argue so much on this forum about the stateline, but Troost is the real dividing line we should put our focus on improving and discussing.
Thanks for posting this kcmo. I watched the first 5 minutes and can't wait to watch the rest this evening. We debate/argue so much on this forum about the stateline, but Troost is the real dividing line we should put our focus on improving and discussing.
I drove down most of Troost a few times last week while in town and it seems like not much has been done to it since I was a kid. As you go south, part of it have no sidewalks, and there was still a lot of foot traffic (walking along the road on dirt paths). I noticed the "Troost Business District" flags here and there, but otherwise, it looks like the city hasn't done much to attract new businesses.
We did a story years ago on finding the real owners of blighted properties, and discovered many owners were actually overseas, with no intent on fixing properties, just waiting for another bank or LLC to buy them. I'm not surprised the city has a huge maintenance backlog either. Down the street from where I work the sidewalks and streets are buckled so badly one would think we live on a fault line.
By the way, the same applies to many areas of Kansas City, Kansas.
Thank you for posting this - it was a fascinating watch
My husband and I are finding that the Troost divide is very much alive and well as we are trying to find homes that we can reasonably afford in order to live comfortably within our means and have short commute times to where we will be working. After spending 45-50 minutes for a 5 mile drive on I-5 in the Fort Lewis/Tacoma area, there is something to be said about wanting to not live 20 miles away
There are good neighborhoods and good places to live east of Troost with opportunities to be had to help revitalize the community (ie. purchasing homes with vacant lots next door so you can use them for urban ag and to enlarge one's base lot size). However, most realtors look at us as if we are bat**** insane for wanting an older home that may be in a diverse neighborhood instead of a house in Liberty, Independence, or JoCo. We're white, we're bilingual (me, Spanish; him, Arabic), former military, and have kids. How is KCMO supposed to get better if people don't want to invest in making it better?
Thank you for posting this - it was a fascinating watch
My husband and I are finding that the Troost divide is very much alive and well as we are trying to find homes that we can reasonably afford in order to live comfortably within our means and have short commute times to where we will be working. After spending 45-50 minutes for a 5 mile drive on I-5 in the Fort Lewis/Tacoma area, there is something to be said about wanting to not live 20 miles away
There are good neighborhoods and good places to live east of Troost with opportunities to be had to help revitalize the community (ie. purchasing homes with vacant lots next door so you can use them for urban ag and to enlarge one's base lot size). However, most realtors look at us as if we are bat**** insane for wanting an older home that may be in a diverse neighborhood instead of a house in Liberty, Independence, or JoCo. We're white, we're bilingual (me, Spanish; him, Arabic), former military, and have kids. How is KCMO supposed to get better if people don't want to invest in making it better?
Is this normal for KC?
I think it is normal. Since there are cheap houses in nicer areas of the metro area, people generally don't have any incentive to fix up older areas. Here in Denver, you can find old houses in need of repair, but since the inner city here has continued to become very desirable, there is a strong incentive to get an old house near desirable areas and fix it up. You get the house cheaper, and build a lot of equity, especially in the "transitioning" neighborhoods (meaning they're transitioning to a desirable neighborhood). It's just hard to really get the ball rolling in the run down neighborhoods of any major city.
Thank you for posting this - it was a fascinating watch
My husband and I are finding that the Troost divide is very much alive and well as we are trying to find homes that we can reasonably afford in order to live comfortably within our means and have short commute times to where we will be working. After spending 45-50 minutes for a 5 mile drive on I-5 in the Fort Lewis/Tacoma area, there is something to be said about wanting to not live 20 miles away
There are good neighborhoods and good places to live east of Troost with opportunities to be had to help revitalize the community (ie. purchasing homes with vacant lots next door so you can use them for urban ag and to enlarge one's base lot size). However, most realtors look at us as if we are bat**** insane for wanting an older home that may be in a diverse neighborhood instead of a house in Liberty, Independence, or JoCo. We're white, we're bilingual (me, Spanish; him, Arabic), former military, and have kids. How is KCMO supposed to get better if people don't want to invest in making it better?
Is this normal for KC?
Unfortunately, this seems very normal. When we bought, my real estate agent wanted to keep us north of 75th and west of Oak on the KCMO side.
I have some friends in the Troost Avenue Lawn HOA that love their neighborhood. It's the SE corner of the Western 49-63, which bumps right up against Troost. I considered living there before heeding my realtor's advice. My friends bought a place well below $100K a number of years ago.
You'll see neighborhoods like TAL peppered throughout KCMO where the residents form a strong community and fight the perception that KCMO is a dangerous place to live. Pendleton Heights is another that comes to mind.
I'm stumped how KC can erase the east of Troost perception. I suppose neighborhoods like TAL and PH will help, since even being near Troost is scary to some. Adjacent safe neighborhoods will slowly erase the negative perception. Urban pioneers like yourself can make baby steps, but I'm concerned it'll take way too long for anything meaningful to evolve.
I'm stumped how KC can erase the east of Troost perception. I suppose neighborhoods like TAL and PH will help, since even being near Troost is scary to some. Adjacent safe neighborhoods will slowly erase the negative perception. Urban pioneers like yourself can make baby steps, but I'm concerned it'll take way too long for anything meaningful to evolve.
Living just a couple blocks west of Troost, this is a topic I think about often. I used to cycle between cautious optimism and the pessimism you describe of feeling like it will take a long time to make an progress on Troost. However, I am now very optimistic that we will see significant change on Troost in the near future. Here are some of the reasons why:
The Troost zoning overlay and design guidelines that were recently implemented are a big step in the right direction. There used to be hardy any restrictions on what could be built or what businesses could operate on Troost, leading to plenty of undesirable and ugly enterprises moving in. Now, those will be restricted.
The progress with Beacon Hill is astounding. Who would have thought that people would buy houses east of Troost for over $500K! The homes are selling as fast as they can build them and there is much more on the way, including proposals on Troost for a mixed-use development and a hotel.
The proposal from Mac Properties to redevelop all four corners of Armour and Troost would be a complete game changer if it comes to fruition. Mac has been incredibly successful at re-developing formerly rundown apartments on Armour and the fact that they are looking at Troost and eastward is exciting. I think a large scale project like this is what is needed to get the ball rolling.
There are other promising signs up and down Troost, like in the Manheim Park neighborhood. It is probably the roughest Troost adjacent neighborhood and it is starting to turn around with the attention of the Make It Right Foundation and others. 63rd St, just west of Troost is starting to see quite a bit of development and improvement as well.
Denverian touched on another big factor - as long as there is affordable housing west of Troost, there is little incentive for people to go east. However, that is starting to change. Prices are quickly going up and inventory is very low for city neighborhoods west of Troost. During the peak of the housing market before the recession, I noticed many young people. who most likely would have bought in places like Volker, Hyde Park, Brookside if they could have afforded it, buy in the Northeast in neighborhoods like Pendleton Heights, and that area made great strides then. Well prices in many areas are starting to approach pre-recession levels, so I think we will see more young, first-time buyers who want to live in the city, but can't afford other areas, look east of Troost.
Denverian touched on another big factor - as long as there is affordable housing west of Troost, there is little incentive for people to go east. However, that is starting to change. Prices are quickly going up and inventory is very low for city neighborhoods west of Troost. During the peak of the housing market before the recession, I noticed many young people. who most likely would have bought in places like Volker, Hyde Park, Brookside if they could have afforded it, buy in the Northeast in neighborhoods like Pendleton Heights, and that area made great strides then. Well prices in many areas are starting to approach pre-recession levels, so I think we will see more young, first-time buyers who want to live in the city, but can't afford other areas, look east of Troost.
That's really what will drive it. Same thing is happening in Denver. People want to live in the city, and near downtown. Prices are outrageous in the desirable city neighborhoods, which then leads to surrounding "transitional" neighborhoods. There are areas like Five Points that were considered dangerous 20 years ago that are now desirable and expensive.
I did notice new construction along Troost up by UMKC and Rochurst... and a nice neighborhood just east of there. Of course, once a neighborhood starts transitioning to desirable, it can quickly become unaffordable for many and reduces affordable housing stock. In Denver, the people who would have once lived in the old, undesirable neighborhoods more and more live in 30 to 40 year old apartment complexes in inner-ring suburbs.
Living just a couple blocks west of Troost, this is a topic I think about often. I used to cycle between cautious optimism and the pessimism you describe of feeling like it will take a long time to make an progress on Troost. However, I am now very optimistic that we will see significant change on Troost in the near future. <snip> During the peak of the housing market before the recession, I noticed many young people. who most likely would have bought in places like Volker, Hyde Park, Brookside if they could have afforded it, buy in the Northeast in neighborhoods like Pendleton Heights, and that area made great strides then. Well prices in many areas are starting to approach pre-recession levels, so I think we will see more young, first-time buyers who want to live in the city, but can't afford other areas, look east of Troost.
The areas you mention are fairly close to Troost, but not in the Paseo-Prospect corridor, which seems to have as much opportunity as blight. It's one thing to be fairly close to the Troost divide, but not deep in the East of Troost. With opportunities to pick up vacant adjoining lots from the Land Bank to increase lots sizes - and dramatically increase one's investment with little money - there are many gems deep East. Besides, without investment into these neighborhoods, they won't get better. :/
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseOwlSaysHoot
Denverian touched on another big factor - as long as there is affordable housing west of Troost, there is little incentive for people to go east. However, that is starting to change. Prices are quickly going up and inventory is very low for city neighborhoods west of Troost.
What exactly constitutes affordable housing these days? Anything under 200K? As we were driving to the Children's Museum in JoCo, I was shocked at the price of a FSBO in Prairie Village. $285K for a home the size of something I rented in Lawton, OK for $500. The asking price for a fixer-upper down the street was $167K. :/
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