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I'm not saying I agree with the dress code, I'm saying that KC has a very well documented track record for this kind of thing and how racial issues affect retail and really entire areas of the city.
While I agree that KC has had an issue with racism in the past.
But, this is NOT a Kansas City specific issue. Cordish has a track record of this all over the country.
As far as I know, the only other city where cordish has had a problem has been Louisville and even there it was a tiny fraction of the crap they are dealing with in KC.
Hey! I am a white guy and you sound like a white guy. You haven't been where these people have. So imo You cannot understand in totality what it is like to be treated this way year after year etc.
I am severely handicapped and sometimes i just get fed up with the attitudes of whole persons on how i should feel!
Almost everyone has faced discrimination of some sorts.
Being black doesn't immediately mean you have been discriminated against. My gf grew up in the hickman mills school district and was the minority there. She was constantly the victim of racism and she was white, as well as her sister and other family members.
I've been the minority in certain areas and been discriminated against, i've been discriminated against because i'm younger, because i've worn clothing people didn't like, etc...
You have a pretty blanket assumption saying "You haven't been where these peopel have..." that in itself is messed up... I know minorities born with golden spoons in their mouth (silver wouldn't be good enough) so you can't assume just cuz someones black they have suffered, or because someone is white they haven't...
I figure that if the dress code is too strict or if people don't like it (which seems to be the case here), then people won't go and Cordish will take corrective actions to relax the code. My point is that in a capitalist society, you have to respond the market or you will fail.
You guys really think Cordish is just some racist company that only want white people in their district? I'm just not buying it.
I will tell you this. The first time something happens in the live block, be it a shooting or stabbing or whatever and I don't care if those involved are white, hispanic or black;, you will hear an uproar from the community as to why "more was not done" to keep the district safe.
I am far from a racist and I do understand what it's like to be a minority. I was the only white kid in an all black school.
What I get tired of if the reverse racism that is so rampant in KC and the midwest. It's why the KCMO school district will NEVER be successful, it's why so many middle american cities have so much crime ridden ghetto per capita.
My wife taught in the KCMO district for 15 years. She now teaches in a district that is just as racially diverse here in MD. The difference? The black teachers and principals respect the white teachers. No chips on the shoulders. They all get along. There is so much reverse discrimination in the KCMO district that nothing will ever get done. Black people that don't have degrees are promoted into positions they are not qualified for while excellent white teachers are treated like outsiders. The kids suffer.
KC has MAJOR racial issues. There are very few areas of the city where you will even see whites and blacks co-existing in a city that has a very large black population. The racial tensions fly from both sides. I tend to think the blacks can be worse than the whites and most intelligent adult african americans will tell you the same. You talk to a 65 year old black guy who actually went through some of the trauma and an 18 year black guy who thinks he is owed something by white people and you can see where much of the problem is. You also have a larger rural population (which tend to be more racist) in the area feeding the fire.
The cordish dress code is a reaction to that. It's not their fault that KC has racial tensions.
Black people started going to Bannister mall and in 2 years, it was known as the ghetto mall and in a period of 4 years went from being one of the most successful malls in the nation to 2 million square feet of empty space. Just cause black people started going there and to this day the entire area around the mall is considered to be violent and unsafe which is simply not true. Bannister Mall we never any more dangerous than Independence Center or Oak Park Mall are today.
What would you do if you were Cordish???
They walk one fine line and have a billion dollar development riding on it. Again, it's not their fault. KC needs to grow up. It's almost 2010.
Almost everyone has faced discrimination of some sorts.
Being black doesn't immediately mean you have been discriminated against. My gf grew up in the hickman mills school district and was the minority there. She was constantly the victim of racism and she was white, as well as her sister and other family members.
I've been the minority in certain areas and been discriminated against, i've been discriminated against because i'm younger, because i've worn clothing people didn't like, etc...
You have a pretty blanket assumption saying "You haven't been where these peopel have..." that in itself is messed up... I know minorities born with golden spoons in their mouth (silver wouldn't be good enough) so you can't assume just cuz someones black they have suffered, or because someone is white they haven't...
When i said "these" i was not meaning all black people and was directed directly at the poster "KCMO". Sorry i was not clear about that.
I think i am done with this thread. Thanks for the comments.
I agree with that. But not seeing race doesn't mean you won't enact racist policies.
JC Nichols didn't include racist covenants in his developments because he hated black people. He did it because that is what the majority of his customers wanted. Cordish is doing the same thing. Doesn't make it right.
I went to the mall last night here in metro DC. It had a nordstroms, crate and barrel etc, so it's a nice mall. The customers walking the mall were the exact same customer base that you would have seen in the years before Bannister Mall closed. A very solid mix of white suburbanites, teens and all kinds of races and of course black people. The black people walk around in causal business or urban stuff; doesn't matter. Everybody seems to get along just fine.
Everybody I have talked to told me this mall is a great mall. Had this mall been in Kansas City it would have been a totally different story. Everybody would have told me the mall is ghetto and dangerous and in a state of decline. "It's not like what it used to be...". That's what I would hear and exactly what I heard as I watched the city literally turn its back on Bannister Mall the very instant ATA buses began to run to the area even though there was nothing to warrant it. Blue Ridge Mall had the same problems even though Blue Ridge mall was a totally safe mall. Ward Parkway faces similar issues.
My wife in the car last night told me again, how wonderful it is to be in a racially diverse school where nobody even thinks about race. She had black teaching aids and black principles and half her students are black. Yet all the black people are so much different than the black people back in the KCMOSD which often were quite racist toward whites. The kids in the KCMO district were practically brainwashing themselves into thinking that it's still 1925 and that white people were only out to keep them in poverty. I'm dead serious. While here, they are just "normal" kids.
I was quite disappointed and it really woke me up on the first day my middle school aged son arrived in suburban DC. We were driving around about 9pm in a suburb and there was a group of young black teens walking down the street. He asked where we were and if this was the ghetto?
I explained to him. Look around. Look how nice it is. Look at those kids. They are just regular teenaged kids just like you, only they are black.
I'm so glad to be out of the midwest and every day I look back I realize just how behind KC is when it comes to race relations. Be it blacks that won't let go of the past and reverse discrimination to whites that still flee like there is no tomorrow when blacks begin to show up in neighborhoods and shopping centers in numbers greater than 5%.
Again, cordish is only responding to KC and how KC would react. KC has a huge lack of educated black people that don't have chips on thier shoulders towards whites. Most leave KC for places like DC, Atlanta etc. Lee's Summit is about as close as it gets to having a good cross section of white and black middle class people living together and interacting. KC is just an extremely segregated city. White people still look for ANY reason to avoid black people and black people still have very serious issues with white people. Not all, but a lot.
KC residents even today are intimidated by KC's still practically dead downtown. There is nothing to be intimidated by in Downtown KC. Downtown KC has to be the most laid back, safe and in some cases boring big city downtown in the nation. Even post P&L District. All it takes is for word to get out that the P&L district is a black hangout and it's over. Whites will quit going and it will close. Many blacks will be ok with that as they don't really care for the P&L district because it's for white people.
KC has major issues. Number one issue. State Line. Number two issue. Race relations.
It's easy to blame Cordish. But you have to look at the big picture.
Also, google dress code and cordish and you will see that 95% of the topics will be about KC even though cordish has developments all over the country. Even Louisville (which everone likes to use as an example of how racist cordish is) is a blip compared to all the crap that KC and the P&L district have gone through in just a few short years.
I will always love KC and it will be my hometown forever, but so many people there choose to ignore major issues there are at least act as if they are just normal and every city has them.
It's just not the case. When KC area residents face the facts and realize that they could do so much more with the state line than tear the city apart and they could do so much more if the city were more racially and economically diverse it would be better off as a whole.
That last post was a well thought out post of what I have seen since moving. What my wife has seen and what my kids have learned while living in the KC area even though they sure didn't learn it from me.
You can pretend things are all rosey and it's ok for the KS side to do what it does and it's ok for KC to be super segregated and it's so easy to point fingers at cordish when the facts are it's what they have to do there to be successful in that market.
I just googled dress code and Power Plant Live, the flagship Cordish development here in Baltimore that has been around for much longer than the P&L District. Very little came up even though they to have a dress code as well and have had some resistance to it.
For the most part, people here are fine with it. Blacks are fine with it. Black clubs have similar dress codes. White people are affected just as much. Why? Probably because there is much higher percentage of blacks here that don't dress like "thugs" in the first place and I'm not saying those that do are are thugs.
Can you actually debate any of what I said in that post? You and others have only solidified my posts by responding to them. Again, I grew up blocks from Bannister Mall. I watched it with very much interest. I could write a book about how that mall peaked and failed in a matter of a few years all caused by racial tensions. I have a very good black friend that lives in Lee's Summit and can tell you all about how many times he has been pulled over in JoCo for doing traffic field work for his small business to the point that he will not even accept jobs in certain cities over there today. I can tell you about the lawsuits my wife has been involved with in the KCMO school district because parents and teacher are always suing each other claiming racism (usually reverse discrimination). You can go on KCSTAR.com any day and read the terrible comments posted by suburbanites on there every day slamming the urban core and black people.
KC is a great city. But yea, I think I made the right choice. My kids will be exposed to things other than suburban white people and they will see that other races can co-exist in the same city with few problems.
So just stay in KC and blame Cordish for all of KC's racial problems. It's no wonder they pretty much ignore it all and do what they have to do anyway.
Yep, the Midwest sure has the market cornered on crappy race relations. Baltimore, for example, has AWESOME race relations.
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