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1. I'm merely noting that poor OK has had 2 more F5's just in May of this year.
2. No question KS has a ton of tornados per square mile, the western part of the state with lots of whimpy tornado's dominates that stat.
3. Complete agree about your F3 commentary, KS is unquestionably a top state for Tornados. Leawood however is far enough east that they are no worse than say....Des Moines in terms of risk.
Thankyou for providing a lot of information, I definitely learned some things and I hope you have a great
weekend. (with no tornados. )
The point I was trying to make was re the F5s. We have had the most in the U s and I myself did not want to believe that-thought The Wizard of Oz was just a sterotype but .... anyway,,,,,glad I could provide some info and now I am totally done with this subject forever and ever.... on to more interesting forums
I would not argue with any of this just making a point re the f5 and ef5s that everyone kept arguing about
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARPARP
Kansas is larger than Oklahoma by 13,000 square miles, and is in fact the size of Great Britain (England, Scotland, and Wales combined). It has just under three million people. Oklahoma by contrast has a million more people so it is more dense. In terms of the number of people dead Oklahoma seems to be more. Even so, Alabama and Mississippi are the undisputed leaders in tornado deaths. They are right behind KS in F5 tornadoes but also have fewer basements.
Still it seems the most widespread death and destruction occurs in Oklahoma. F5 can be bad, but did anybody look at F4 stats? F4 is already going to flatten a house, so it doesn't make it any worse. Anything F4 and above will pretty much decimate you.
So yes KS has the most but OK does not have western KS to drive up the numbers, as the panhandle connects with Texas. If you start breaking things down considering area and population density you will realize that there are states worse than KS in terms of your chances of actually getting hit or killed in a tornado.
Since 1990 as I explained there were 34 deaths in KS, 28 of which occurred in just two years (1991 with 17 and 2007 with 11). There were no tornado deaths since 1966 when 16 people died in Topeka.
158 died in Missouri since then in just one tornado, Joplin. This was close to KS, but Joplin was part of a super outbreak, which happens once a generation. (You have go back to 1974 for something similar). But nobody died in Missouri since 51 died in 1957. Not one person died in between these two large tragedies in that entire state. They are big death tolls but the result of only three tornadoes 54 years apart (there were 2 deadly twisters in MO in 57). It may look big but what about the people who lived in Missouri during the 54 years nobody died? Were they cowering for 54 years?
Since 1990, discounting the Joplin disaster which truly is rare (a tornado F5 level coming through a major city and destroying the entire thing) a few stats stand out.
KS - 34 killed. Deaths in 1990, 1991, and 2007.
OK - 77 killed. Deaths in 1999, 2011, 2013.
AL - 193 killed. Deaths in 1998 and 2011.
MO - 153 killed. Deaths in 2011.
As you can see a lot of states had it worse than KS. The reality is that F5 tornadoes hitting in the deep south kill more since population density is much higher.
As a lot of people have said many of them have not seen tornadoes. I saw a thread like this in the Oklahoma forum after Moore's second tornado (the fact it was hit twice is being debated as to whether it is coincidental or whether there is a microclimate prone to tornadic activity). People asked why people stayed in OK.
Somebody remarked that they did not know anybody killed in a tornado in their entire life of living in OK.
That is not to say there is a higher chance you will see structural damage, this is more likely, but still most people do not lose their homes to tornadoes. The vast majority of tornadoes are going to knock over a few trees and rip shingles off roofs. The tornadoes which can really level houses are very rare, and nine times out of ten they occur in rural areas.
It is so extremely rare that a tornado will come down into an urban area. It can happen but once again it is very rare. People in Florida by contrast have to worry about hurricanes hundreds of miles wide. A tornado is in some ways like a miniature hurricane, although with higher winds inside of it, which is why it tends to do more damage where it hits. Still I feel like if I had to choose between living in a tornado zone or a hurricane zone I would pick tornadoes any day.
The point was the f5s and ef5s---Ks has the most intense tornadoes.Yes,prob more people die in states that are more crowded and fewer basements--makes sense.
I think being blown up into the sky would kind of ruin most people's day--sure not the way I want to go.
Non-issue????? There are a lot of people who don't admit how dangerous Kansas really is-if they want to live in a bubble-good for them.
I wonder if that could be because it is not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bev osborn
The point I was trying to make was re the F5s. We have had the most in the U s and I myself did not want to believe that-thought The Wizard of Oz was just a sterotype but .... anyway,,,,,glad I could provide some info and now I am totally done with this subject forever and ever.... on to more interesting forums
Thanks again. I appreciate all the comments and suggestions. Not sure about the "snob" one though. I've only met nice people in KS and enjoyed my stay. I read an article from a Boston Globe reporter that said something to the effect "There are just some places where the people are nicer." I believe we are moving to Leawood. Now the Real question: follow KU or K State? Kidding.
I have lived in both KS and IN. I don't tornadoes should be your biggest concern. It is very hard to gauge a place by a visit. Here are some crime stats: http://www.accesskansas.org/kbi/stat...dex%202011.pdf and another article about Johnson County: Poverty comes to Johnson County, Kansas, with a growing vengeance - Kansas City Business Journal I don't know if the poverty rate has improved but I do know that in counties where poverty is high, there is often drug problems that cause a lot of thief. I would also make sure that there would be other jobs in the area in your field in case the one you get disappears. Another good thing to check is home foreclosures since that is an indication of problems also. IN has tornadoes too. I don't know if you remember the one on Palm Sunday in northern IN but it was a devastating one back in the 60's. On City-Data's main page, if you go to the bottom of that page and click on a state, you can then go to individual cities and look at data on them. //www.city-data.com/city/Leawood-Kansas.html and statistics do tell a lot if you know how to put it all together.
As I tell people in the moving thread all the time, the people of an area are not the best judge of what the place is like unless they have lived in a few other places to be able to compare them with. I have lived in a few other places and traveled to places. Trust me, you cannot tell what a place is like by visiting. Good luck.
Don't like it-don't read it--you haven't blazed any literary trails,as far as I can see.I proved some people wrong and now they are mad boo hoo. At least Mathguy had the guts to say he learned something--kudos to him.
Last edited by bev osborn; 08-03-2013 at 12:07 PM..
Reason: spelling
I have lived in both KS and IN. I don't tornadoes should be your biggest concern. It is very hard to gauge a place by a visit. Here are some crime stats: http://www.accesskansas.org/kbi/stat...dex%202011.pdf and another article about Johnson County: Poverty comes to Johnson County, Kansas, with a growing vengeance - Kansas City Business Journal I don't know if the poverty rate has improved but I do know that in counties where poverty is high, there is often drug problems that cause a lot of thief. I would also make sure that there would be other jobs in the area in your field in case the one you get disappears. Another good thing to check is home foreclosures since that is an indication of problems also. IN has tornadoes too. I don't know if you remember the one on Palm Sunday in northern IN but it was a devastating one back in the 60's. On City-Data's main page, if you go to the bottom of that page and click on a state, you can then go to individual cities and look at data on them. //www.city-data.com/city/Leawood-Kansas.html and statistics do tell a lot if you know how to put it all together.
As I tell people in the moving thread all the time, the people of an area are not the best judge of what the place is like unless they have lived in a few other places to be able to compare them with. I have lived in a few other places and traveled to places. Trust me, you cannot tell what a place is like by visiting. Good luck.
Northern Indiana has a much milder climate than Kansas with far more tolerable Summer temperatures with less in the way of severe weather or any tornados. It is also much easier to grow things in that area as the soils are much better.
1. I'm merely noting that poor OK has had 2 more F5's just in May of this year.
2. No question KS has a ton of tornados per square mile, the western part of the state with lots of whimpy tornado's dominates that stat.
3. Complete agree about your F3 commentary, KS is unquestionably a top state for Tornados. Leawood however is far enough east that they are no worse than say....Des Moines in terms of risk.
Thankyou for providing a lot of information, I definitely learned some things and I hope you have a great weekend. (with no tornados. )
The one that hit Moore was horrible, especially with its timing. We had one headed our way during that storm but it found the river and kept following the river, which is what they usually do. My neighbor is nearly sixty and has never seen a tornado and has lived here all his life. His father has too and HE wanted to go down the road where someone said there was a funnel visible just to see one once. Someone said people in Kansas seem to not consider it could happen. I doubt that, its just you consider the odds.
I used to live in the area of California where the San Andreas is going to go, which it is very much overdue to do, and about twenty miles from the place it probably will slip, where it is weakest. The place I lived will likely collapse when this happens. People got very nervous when there were small quakes. But unless they were enough to break something they didn't even make the news. We all knew that someday it WILL happen as the rocks can stand only so much pressure. And it will be far worse than a tornado since it will send its energy down the fault. My cousin was sitting in his truck outside his house for a month after Northridge, a quarter mile from the epicenter, since there was really no security around and people willing to risk a house collapsing for the loot. It will be much worse, lots of Northridges.
But do people go about worrying about the big one all the time? And there are no 'season's" for quakes. No. They accept it might happen any time, but chances are it won't and go on with life. I found it very easy to understand the local's attitudes towards tornados, and there are seasons for them.
When it comes right down to it, fear of natural occurances should not deter anyone from a place they like since they will happen and you don't let them rule every minute. The people and the costs and if it gives you what you're looking for are more important and will be in the long run.
I visited Kansas but the winter weather just seemed a bit too extreme and I didn't know anyone there and did in Oklahoma. We have even had a few reasonably strong quakes and I still love it. The scariest time was when a fire was burning towards us last year with a third the normal rainfall (so far twice the normal rainfall so no worries about that this year). I saw where it started and of course nobody in OKC had mentioned it so called the fire department and then went to bed.
If you'll be happy with the place and the people and can afford it is what will make you happy, not seeking a placed where no great disastor will happen. There isn't such a place and you'll never get back the time you spend worrying.
Kansas is larger than Oklahoma by 13,000 square miles, and is in fact the size of Great Britain (England, Scotland, and Wales combined). It has just under three million people. Oklahoma by contrast has a million more people so it is more dense. In terms of the number of people dead Oklahoma seems to be more. Even so, Alabama and Mississippi are the undisputed leaders in tornado deaths. They are right behind KS in F5 tornadoes but also have fewer basements.
Still it seems the most widespread death and destruction occurs in Oklahoma. F5 can be bad, but did anybody look at F4 stats? F4 is already going to flatten a house, so it doesn't make it any worse. Anything F4 and above will pretty much decimate you.
So yes KS has the most but OK does not have western KS to drive up the numbers, as the panhandle connects with Texas. If you start breaking things down considering area and population density you will realize that there are states worse than KS in terms of your chances of actually getting hit or killed in a tornado.
Since 1990 as I explained there were 34 deaths in KS, 28 of which occurred in just two years (1991 with 17 and 2007 with 11). There were no tornado deaths since 1966 when 16 people died in Topeka.
158 died in Missouri since then in just one tornado, Joplin. This was close to KS, but Joplin was part of a super outbreak, which happens once a generation. (You have go back to 1974 for something similar). But nobody died in Missouri since 51 died in 1957. Not one person died in between these two large tragedies in that entire state. They are big death tolls but the result of only three tornadoes 54 years apart (there were 2 deadly twisters in MO in 57). It may look big but what about the people who lived in Missouri during the 54 years nobody died? Were they cowering for 54 years?
Since 1990, discounting the Joplin disaster which truly is rare (a tornado F5 level coming through a major city and destroying the entire thing) a few stats stand out.
KS - 34 killed. Deaths in 1990, 1991, and 2007.
OK - 77 killed. Deaths in 1999, 2011, 2013.
AL - 193 killed. Deaths in 1998 and 2011.
MO - 153 killed. Deaths in 2011.
As you can see a lot of states had it worse than KS. The reality is that F5 tornadoes hitting in the deep south kill more since population density is much higher.
As a lot of people have said many of them have not seen tornadoes. I saw a thread like this in the Oklahoma forum after Moore's second tornado (the fact it was hit twice is being debated as to whether it is coincidental or whether there is a microclimate prone to tornadic activity). People asked why people stayed in OK.
Somebody remarked that they did not know anybody killed in a tornado in their entire life of living in OK.
That is not to say there is a higher chance you will see structural damage, this is more likely, but still most people do not lose their homes to tornadoes. The vast majority of tornadoes are going to knock over a few trees and rip shingles off roofs. The tornadoes which can really level houses are very rare, and nine times out of ten they occur in rural areas.
It is so extremely rare that a tornado will come down into an urban area. It can happen but once again it is very rare. People in Florida by contrast have to worry about hurricanes hundreds of miles wide. A tornado is in some ways like a miniature hurricane, although with higher winds inside of it, which is why it tends to do more damage where it hits. Still I feel like if I had to choose between living in a tornado zone or a hurricane zone I would pick tornadoes any day.
The death toll when you consider Moore and its two visitations is skewed a bit for 'overall' stats. Oklahoma has a concentration of population in Tulsa and OKC and its area including Moore. 80 percent of the state's population lives there. The other twenty percent is scattered around the rest of the state. The chances of a tornado that can do bad damage hitting a habitated area is small. Most hit open countryside. If you count all those it explains why most people here have never seen one, even a small one.
I'd definately pick this over hurricanes. Add that socal is so smoggy I could barely breath and here all I have problems with is an occasional allergy and this is a far better choice. I really wish my family still wasn't in socal since it is ripe for something really bad to happen, especially more fires. Where my inlaws live they've had a half inch of rain this year.
My dad's family still largely lives in Limestone County Alabama which seems to be a center of tornadic activity too, and there I would be more worried.
Northern Indiana has a much milder climate than Kansas with far more tolerable Summer temperatures with less in the way of severe weather or any tornados. It is also much easier to grow things in that area as the soils are much better.
However,if we water everything all the time out here,we can grow ANYTHING--our soil is sandy loam and that's one of the better ones.As far as growing stuff-maybe it depends on what part of the state you are talking about,but never had a prob with it except for the drought here where you have to water a lot-in Eastern Ks I had a huge rose garden and all my neighbors had veg gardens.
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I would not argue with any of this just making a point re the f5 and ef5s that everyone kept arguing about
