[ScoopLV]

1) "Patronizing" is not the same thing as "patronage."

2) The people who eat where I work aren't complaining about how hard things are. Recession does not affect the very rich.

[ScoopLV]

(I should probably point out that patronizing is indeed proper use of the word. It was a "no-no" for me to use it for anything other than "talking down to" in a previous job.)

But, yes, the people eating at the restaurant where I work have no problems plunking down $20,000 for dinner for six. They're not griping about "things are tough all over." We have some guests who fly in, eat a $1,000 meal -- plus wine -- and fly out (in their private jet).

Dickens nailed it 150 years ago, "It was the best of times. It was the worst of times."

[Swigchow]

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

I'm not even going to get started on the American Indian tangent. (But for anyone interested, they had a civilization that was more advanced in many ways than the Europeans who brought the plague that wiped them out. There is a great article here about this. It's a nice jumping-off point.)

Let's focus on the gadgets instead.

Landscaping, cell phone data plans, fitness clubs, gasoline, car payments, credit card finance charges, excessive power bills, Starbuck's, McDonald's, food delivery, lottery tickets, premium cable and on and on and on and on -- monthly expenses are the bugbear of wealth creation.

The great recession wiped out about half of our net worth. It hasn't affected our lifestyle one bit because we live ridiculously below our means. Almost all of our earnings go into savings and investments. We simply do not spend a whole hell of a lot of money. We fly coach even though we can afford first class. We own used cars with really good gas mileage. (My truck runs on natural gas at $2.49 per gallon.) We have cell phones that don't do texting or internet surfing. The cost for three people is $35 per month. (And the only reason we have THAT is because it's cheaper than long distance on a land line.) We almost never eat out. We don't have a Netflix account. We shop at the Mexican markets and the Asian markets and the food co-ops. We never buy packaged food. Only produce, meat and grain. I build all of our furniture.

And because of all of the above, we live on about 10% of what we make. The other 90% goes to savings and investing. My wife and I are at the peak of our careers and we sock every last penny away.

So when I hear people complaining about how hard things are; And then find out they're financing a $50,000 car for 60 months; And learn they're paying a landscaping crew to come over twice a month; And that they buy Starbuck's every day; And that they eat out four times a week; I don't have a lot of sympathy.

That is very admirable although I am not sure how you do it. One possibility is that your incomes are very high thus making living expense fractionally small. Furthermore, you must not have a mortgage, and you keep your house at 90 degrees, and you never drink water or flush toilets, and you never travel, maybe your anorectic, and might you be one of those constitutionalist who doesn't pay income or property taxes. You also must not have kids since they seem to be very expensive especially since we have two in college. However, I definitely agree with your general precept about what many people call "affluenzae."

[tijlover]

Even though the housing crash here has destroyed a portion of the middle class, with these super-low prices, it's afforded others, from different parts of the country, with, not only a continuing middle class lifestyle, but perhaps an upper-middle class lifestyle.

Even a dumpy townhouse in a NYC borough can fetch $300k, and if they move here and buy a $50k fixer upper, they've moved up to middle class or upper middle class, with a small pile of $$ in the bank! And what about those that sold a $750k house in the Bay area, and moved here and bought dirt cheap here? Into the bank went all that savings, and we're talking early, early retirement!

If your house is paid for here, you can still enjoy a semi-middle class lifetstyle only if you move to another state that has experienced a housing crash, like AZ or FL.

Yeah, even though my $72k townhouse I bought in 1996 will probably only fetch $35-40k when I sell it next year, no pain at all, since I'm moving to Tucson where I'm eyeing similar townhouses there where I plan to pay cash!

But my choices are extremely limited! AZ or FL or perhaps Atlanta!

[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by Swigchow

That is very admirable although I am not sure how you do it. One possibility is that your incomes are very high thus making living expense fractionally small. Furthermore, you must not have a mortgage, and you keep your house at 90 degrees, and you never drink water or flush toilets, and you never travel, maybe your anorectic, and might you be one of those constitutionalist who doesn't pay income or property taxes. You also must not have kids since they seem to be very expensive especially since we have two in college. However, I definitely agree with your general precept about what many people call "affluenzae."

No mortgage. We keep the house in the 80s. Our power bills are around $40. We make our own water using an RO system. We travel extensively. But we're backpacking types, and we travel off season so we enjoy far lower prices and have the place to ourselves. We buy high-quality, low price food by shopping around (see my post about various markets for how to do it). I do most of the cooking. We don't often eat out. And even when we do eat out, I'm usually paid to do so. We both work. And we both have secondary (and tertiary) streams of income. We invest a great deal -- and we plow the dividends back into our investments. No children.

But even for a family with kids, there's still loads of room to pair down expenses. It's all about separating the needs from the wants. And when you get down to it, there are very few "needs." (Air, food, water, shelter -- those are needs. Data plans, Starbuck's, new cars, designer clothes, eating out instead of brown-bagging it, landscaping, paying others to do home maintenance -- those are "wants." And it all adds up.)

[eventusstultorummagister]

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

Our power bills are around $40.

Thug: Look, bud, I said 'Your money or your life.'
Jack Benny: I'm thinking it over.

Thug: You're gonna give us $10,000, or we're gonna break both your legs.
Jack Benny: Does it have to be both?

[observer53]

As this topic keeps veering away from anything specific to LV, please take the general discussion to one of the general forums. Thanks!