New OMB MSA/CSA designations show that the Lehigh Valley was added to the New York CSA! (Philadelphia: fit in, home)

[PacoMartin]

Valentro apparently did the populations of the new CSA's. The machinations should keep New York ahead of Los Angeles for a few more decades, even if they combine LA and San Diego. Philadelphia will probably go down to 8th position in a few years as the higher growth rates in Dallas will push it ahead.

It could potentially lose three more ranking positions in the next 20 years to Miami, Houston, and Atlanta which will push Phillyout of the top 10. I don't think Detroit CSA will grow faster than Philly, and Seattle, Phoenix, and MSP are too far behind.

Originally Posted by valentro

01. New York-Newark, NY-NJ-CT-PA Combined Statistical Area: 23,208,881
02. Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA Combined Statistical Area: 18,081,569
03. Chicago-Naperville, IL-IN-WI Combined Statistical Area: 9,884,733
04. Washington-Baltimore-Arlington, DC-MD-VA-WV-PA Combined Statistical Area: 9,278,051
05. San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA Combined Statistical Area: 8,259,674
06. Boston-Worcester-Providence, MA-RI-NH-CT Combined Statistical Area: 7,816,830
07. Philadelphia-Reading-Camden, PA-NJ-DE-MD Combined Statistical Area: 7,098,060
08. Dallas-Fort Worth, TX-OK Combined Statistical Area: 6,918,359
09. Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Port St. Lucie, FL Combined Statistical Area: 6,276,370
10. Houston-The Woodlands, TX Combined Statistical Area: 6,266,432
11. Atlanta--Athens-Clarke County--Sandy Springs, GA Combined Statistical Area: 5,987,356
12. Detroit-Warren-Ann Arbor, MI Combined Statistical Area: 5,306,874
13. Seattle-Tacoma, WA Combined Statistical Area: 4,345,250
14. Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale, AZ Metropolitan Statistical Area: 4,263,236
15. Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN-WI Combined Statistical Area: 3,692,209
16. Denver-Aurora-Boulder, CO Combined Statistical Area: 3,157,520
17. San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA Metropolitan Statistical Area: 3,140,069
18. Portland-Vancouver-Salem, OR-WA Combined Statistical Area: 2,963,998
19. St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, MO-IL Combined Statistical Area: 2,921,694
20. Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL Metropolitan Statistical Area: 2,824,724
21. Orlando-Deltona-Daytona Beach, FL Combined Statistical Area: 2,775,600

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

Valentro apparently did the populations of the new CSA's. The machinations should keep New York ahead of Los Angeles for a few more decades, even if they combine LA and San Diego. Philadelphia will probably go down to 8th position in a few years as the higher growth rates in Dallas will push it ahead.

It could potentially lose three more ranking positions in the next 20 years to Miami, Houston, and Atlanta which will push Phillyout of the top 10. I don't think Detroit CSA will grow faster than Philly, and Seattle, Phoenix, and MSP are too far behind.

You do understand that the Philly CSA and the New York CSA were very close to combining if Mercer County had made the MSA 25% threshold requirement. It's almost certain that their CSAs will probably combine in the next 20 years since they was so close to combining this year.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

You do understand that the Philly CSA and the New York CSA were very close to combining if Mercer County had made the MSA 25% threshold requirement. It's almost certain that their CSAs will probably combine in the next 20 years since they was so close to combining this year.

So we would have a CSA with a giant conurbation containing 1 person in 8 in the USA and a combined population of over 41 million. California is now cited at 38 million and grows by a million people every 3 years.

With a population larger than the two abutting direct controlled municipalities of China,
Běijīng Shì 19.6m
Tiānjīn Shì 12.9m

And comparable to Japan's Kantō region 42.6m which surrounds greater Tokyo.

[Chelito23]

Question: I see residents consider the Lehigh Valley to be its own are, but, which region would you say that most people identify the Lehigh Valley with between Philly and NYC? I imagine it varies depening on natives vs. transplants. But I am just wondering what the feel is-and not based on commuting pattern or government surveys.

Also, someone wrote they took off NBC New York from the local cable lineup. On cable, in Allentown, do you get all the other over-the-air broadcast stations from New York other than NBC? Is it a shared media market between Philly and NYC?

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Chelito23

Also, someone wrote they took off NBC New York from the local cable lineup. On cable, in Allentown, do you get all the other over-the-air broadcast stations from New York other than NBC? Is it a shared media market between Philly and NYC?

RCN (formerly Twin County in until 1994) had duplicate ABC and NBC (not CBS) stations. They had ABC from Scranton DMA (WNEP) and NBC from New York in addition to the Philadelphia station. I know they took WNEP from both RCN and SECTV cable. I don't think it was on DirectTV satellite. They took NBC-4 from New York off of RCN (I don't know about SECTV).

FOX, ION, CW are still being carried from both Philadelphia and New York (or New Jersey). They also carry PBS from the Lehigh Valley (#39) and Wilmington Delaware TTY (antenna is in the same place as other Philadelphia antennas).

WNEP (ABC Scranton) has translators (small relay antennas) all over the place because it is so hilly). They also have one on South Mountain in Salisbury Township just south of Allentown.

I have never seen any documentation that says Lehigh Valley is a "shared media market" with either New York or Scranton. I am not sure if there really is such a thing. It usually always says LV is part of Philly DMA. Obviously there was a loophole which seems to be closing.

Horizon distance (line of sight) from 1100' antenna is about 40 miles (which is what most antennas put on their advertising material). Now the antennas in NY are on top of the Empire State Building which would get another 5 miles or so. If the home antenna is 25' in the air you should get another 6 miles. A really good log periodic antenna might get you a few more miles over line of sight. All this to say that I don't think it is possible to receive a signal "over the air" from New York which is 79 miles from Empire State Building to PP&L Building. They may move the television antennas higher up from the ground to the new WTC building which will buy a little more distance. In any case I don't think many people try.

You can purchase Yankee Entertainment Sports (YES) a regional sports channel on RCN cable, but only Comcast Philly comes with basic cable.

I should note that is 40.5 miles from Philadelphia TV antennas to the PP&L building, and there are mountains in the way. Depending on the sophistication of your home antenna hookup, and your precise location you may not be able to get OTA broadcasts from Philadelphia in Allentown.

[avg12]

YES is also for extra purchase on Verizon Fios in S. Jersey on a sports tier. But it's a watered down national version without the live games. The Yankees live games aren't shown because it's not part of the Yankees local market.

I suspect the same is with the LV. What I was saying was the NY teams would push to get LV as part of the local sports market, setting LV to be like Scranton that gets all the NY teams and sports RSNs, in the basic package with ESPN, etc. Scranton also gets CSN Philly.

Regarding the comment of blackouts being obsolete: Blackouts are still relevant. Otherwise Dish could just offer and market carrying Yankees games in NY from the opposing team's RSN's feed from MLB EI, bypassing carrying YES.

[ChuckG2008]

Northampton, Lehigh, and CARBON counties part of the New York CSA now?? The westernmost parts of Lehigh and Carbon are like, over 100 miles west of New York lol. Honestly, I agree with an earlier poster who pointed out that New York metro most likely feels threatened by the impressive growth of the Los Angeles metro and wants to do whatever it takes to maintain its population edge. Makes sense to me. But, where does this madness end? I predict in the next 10 years (or maybe sooner!), they're gonna want to annex Philadelphia outright as part of the New York CSA!!

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by ChuckG2008

I predict in the next 10 years (or maybe sooner!), they're gonna want to annex Philadelphia outright as part of the New York CSA!!

Well they won't make a decision again until 2023. They unified Baltimore and Washington into one CSA (in 1993), so eventually it seems inevitable that Philly and NY will be unified.

[Brookjersey]

I was stunned to find out that Allentown-Easton (Lehigh Valley) area was officially part New York City CSA as of March of 2013. Just like the Trenton area (NYC CSA area/Philadelphia TV Market) where I live and on weekends visit my girlfriend who lives in the Lehigh County (Allentown, PA. same as Trenton) and their local cable companies both RCN & Service Electric has 4 New York local channels (4,5,9 & 11) while the rest are Philly locals. Recently RCN Lehigh Valley just terminated WNBC Ch 4 New York because the company didn't want to share with Philly's Ch 10 of NBC. Service Electric has Ch 4 but the company has less channels than RCN. This is my point. Now that Lehigh Valley is in the NYC CSA area its time for the local cable companies add all the NYC locals as well as NYC local sports net like Trenton, NJ Area though it'll remain the Philly TV Market. Only part of Lehigh Valley that has most of the NYC locals as well as Philly's is Phillipsburg/ Warren County, NJ ( Philly TV Market cable) and their in the NYC TV Market of Direct TV & Dish and it doesn't make any sense if part of an area has something that the rest of the area doesn't just because they from New Jersey. Just like Trenton, NJ as a whole there are a lot of NYC /Philly commuters live in Lehigh Valley because both areas are far way from the high housing markets & the difference is that Trenton rules on commuter rail while Lehigh Valley rules on buses & residents sports are either Eagles, Sixers, Flyers or Giants, Jets, Knicks Nets & Yankees, Mets. I recently wrote to Lehigh Valley local cable companies of adding NYC channels but to no response. Then I wrote to the FCC and they responded. Now its up to the FCC to let the local cable company knows that even though the Lehigh Valley is officially the NYC area but still Philly TV Market like Trenton, NJ. It is fair to add the NYC locals & sports nets within a couple of years. I would love to move to Lehigh Valley but Im staying put in Trenton because I love my NYC locals & sports nets. Though I miss Ch 2,7 MSG & Yes on weekends (I tape my shows on FIOS Mercer). Lehigh Valley is much cheaper to live than Trenton but will pay a lot more to commute on bus & its not as cheap & convenient of commuting on train. Been 4 months since Lehigh Valley was added to the NYC CSA and there's no plans of whether RCN or Service Electric Lehigh Valley are going to add the remaining NYC locals. Changes should be made within a year.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Brookjersey

I was stunned to find out that Allentown-Easton (Lehigh Valley) area was officially part New York City CSA as of March of 2013.

their local cable companies both RCN & Service Electric has 4 New York local channels (4,5,9 & 11) while the rest are Philly locals. Recently RCN Lehigh Valley just terminated WNBC Ch 4 New York because the company didn't want to share with Philly's Ch 10 of NBC.

Then I wrote to the FCC and they responded. Now its up to the FCC to let the local cable company knows that even though the Lehigh Valley is officially the NYC area but still Philly TV Market like Trenton, NJ.

Unfortunately the Census Department determines the Combined Statistical Areas (CSA) and the Fcc defines the Designated Market Areas (DMA). They are not required by law to be identical.

Channels #5 and #11 were set up as superstations in the early days of cable television. The Fcc cut back on superstations. WTBS is now completely seperate from the Atlanta network station. But the oldest stations were grandfathered under the new laws. So channel #5 and #11 are allowed to operate in direct competition with the MyTV and CW network stations in Philadelphia.
5 MyTV WWOR
11 CW W PIX

The Fcc recently prohibited WNEP, an ABC affiliate in Wilkes-Barre Scranton from operating on cable stations in the Lehigh Valley, and the New York NBC owned and operated station has been removed in favor of the Philadelphia NBC station.

For some reason Fox network stations WTXF-29 (Fox in Philadelphia, channel #9 on RCN) and WNYW-5 (FOX in NYC, channel #21 on RCN) are still both on in cable in the Valley.
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You would think that Philadelphia could care less about the Lehigh Valley for their TV market, as it is such a small percentage of the total number of TV homes. But sometimes advertisers care a lot about rank. Philadelphia has been the 4th largest DMA for many decades now. Without the Lehigh Valley, the Philadelphia DMA may be overtaken by Dallas Fort Worth sooner, rather than later.

2012:TV Homes by Designated Market Area
#1 New York 7,387,810
#2 Los Angeles 5,569,780
#3 Chicago 3,493,480
#4 Philadelphia 2,993,370
#5 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,571,310

#41 Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 729,440
#54 Wilkes Barre-Scranton-Hztn 590,740