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Moderator note: This post, as well as the next two posts of this thread, were moved from another thread that had started to have a topic drift. They were moved so the discussion could continue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradiselost
If you think Lexington is expensive I am moving there from Tampa next month after 15 years and its way way cheaper there compared to Central Florida. Rent for a nice 3 bedroom town home is 1000-1100 in Lexington and in Tampa around 1500-1700, car insurance 155 a month in Tampa 75 a month in Lexington. Pay-rates are very similar in all industries. The Positive vs Tennessee and Florida VS Kentucky is there is no income tax. But I heard the new administration is looking to lower the rates in the state. Three other people I know in the Tampa area moved to Lexington the last few years and it its dirt cheap compared to areas in the northeast and Florida in goods and services, the average is 13 inches of snow in Lex a Winter ill take that instead of overpriced rent and insurances, increasing crime and spending half my life in traffic.
People in lex think the one mile strip of traffic on Nicholsville road from MOW to New Circle is heavy traffic, they haven't seen traffic till they come to Tampa or Orlando. In central Florida you got tourists and new comers from 50 states and 100 countries which have no clue where they are going and how to get there which causes a very dangerous situation.
Glad you've settled here and it's working for you. Lexington is fairly affordable and a nice place to live.
I frequently have this traffic discussion with people from larger cities and it seems to be a difficult concept for them to grasp. Lexington's traffic isn't caused by density AND it probably is fair to say it's not nearly as bad as most cities. Lexington's traffic issues are caused mostly through their own fault--poor urban planning, an inferior infrastructure system that is built to support a city of about 200,000 while Lexington has now eclipsed 300,000 (MSA is nearing 500,000). This leads to the issue of it taking 30 minutes to go 2-3 miles. That is infuriating.
Those Florida cities are MUCH more populated BUT have the benefit of a much more proficient interstate system. So the traffic in both places is apples and oranges beyond who has it worse.
That said, this discussion is silly. Apparently having the worst traffic is a badge of honor to some people. Hahaha!
I refuse to fall into that trap! I'm just stating the obvious differences.
Yes with Lexington events at the college get things busy on various times that is any city. Its a different dynamic. Yes Tampa Bay is impossible to compare to Lexington as it is much more populated with tourists and residents. But the Pinellas County side of the bay which is the same square mileage of land as Fayette County and has 978,000 people plus tourists and little interstate system at all as its red light after red light So i would take 310,000 k any day.
Glad you've settled here and it's working for you. Lexington is fairly affordable and a nice place to live.
I frequently have this traffic discussion with people from larger cities and it seems to be a difficult concept for them to grasp. Lexington's traffic isn't caused by density AND it probably is fair to say it's not nearly as bad as most cities. Lexington's traffic issues are caused mostly through their own fault--poor urban planning, an inferior infrastructure system that is built to support a city of about 200,000 while Lexington has now eclipsed 300,000 (MSA is nearing 500,000). This leads to the issue of it taking 30 minutes to go 2-3 miles. That is infuriating.
Those Florida cities are MUCH more populated BUT have the benefit of a much more proficient interstate system. So the traffic in both places is apples and oranges beyond who has it worse.
That said, this discussion is silly. Apparently having the worst traffic is a badge of honor to some people. Hahaha!
I refuse to fall into that trap! I'm just stating the obvious differences.
Yes. The differences are Tampa and Orlando are large metro areas. Lexington is a small town. Due to its poor roads, however, Lexington has way more traffic than its worth. Widening New Circle is long overdue, and removing the limited access highway part.
Yes. The differences are Tampa and Orlando are large metro areas. Lexington is a small town. Due to its poor roads, however, Lexington has way more traffic than its worth. Widening New Circle is long overdue, and removing the limited access highway part.
The first thing that needs to be cleared up is that Lexington is not a small town. According to the standards used by both US map makers and US textbook publishers the designations are as follows:
Kentucky has an official classification system for cities based on population
First Class: 100,000 or more (2)
Second Class: 20,000 to 99,999 (16)
Third Class: 8,000 to 19,999 (32)
Fourth Class: 3,000 to 7,999 (57)
Fifth Class: 1,000 to 2,999 (98)
Sixth Class: <999 (213)
*The number in the parentheses is the number of cities based on 2015 population fit in that classification. I know at one time many cities had not updated their official classification, including Lexington, since the late 1800's, but that is a different rant.
To refer to the second largest city in a state as a small town is disingenuous, at best. However, I do agree that Lexington has worse traffic problems that it's population warrants and that is because of decisions made in the late 1960's-early 70's. The decision was made to have Lexington as a hub with limited direct routes to and from the city center to other surrounding towns. There was a deliberate decision to not have direct routes from one side of the town to the other that did not go through town first or require travel on New Circle Road.
Widening New Circle Road by itself is not going to fix the major traffic problems for the daily commuter, as it is the spokes of the circle where the most traffic problems occur, including in the regions between New Circle and Man of War. Had they created viable arteries in a grid format, even outside of New Circle, Lexington would not have these problems. It also wouldn't be as bad if they could figure out how to remove most the direct access on New Circle Road between Richmond Road and Newtown Pike.
One of my sisters lives outside of Man of War, off Harrodsburg Road, the double diamond made a huge difference in traffic and she says cut her commute by 15-20 minutes each way, so there has been some progress.
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Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,480,204 times
Reputation: 12187
Lexington has much worse rush hour traffic than it's peer cities - Chattanooga, Madison, Huntsville, Springfield MO, etc. It's a function of having a higher population density due to the urban growth boundary yet still being a car dependent city and the lack of freeways going downtown. Not building freeways through downtown greatly helped older neighborhoods not experience the decline seen in cities that put in freeways but it makes traffic worse. Even a basic 2 lanes each way freeway can handle far more vehicles moving at 60 mph than the widest road with traffic lights. In light traffic on a Saturday Lexington is a breeze to drive around because it is so compact for its size, but add more cars for rush hour or UK sporting events and the roads can't handle it.
I'm surprised the first part of New Circle Rd to be widened is a freeway section. While it has some slowdowns the non freeway part of New Circle has always been much worse. I'd say not widening the freeway part of New Circle but redoing those outdated interchanges would relieve most problems.
The first thing that needs to be cleared up is that Lexington is not a small town. According to the standards used by both US map makers and US textbook publishers the designations are as follows:
Kentucky has an official classification system for cities based on population
First Class: 100,000 or more (2)
Second Class: 20,000 to 99,999 (16)
Third Class: 8,000 to 19,999 (32)
Fourth Class: 3,000 to 7,999 (57)
Fifth Class: 1,000 to 2,999 (98)
Sixth Class: <999 (213)
*The number in the parentheses is the number of cities based on 2015 population fit in that classification. I know at one time many cities had not updated their official classification, including Lexington, since the late 1800's, but that is a different rant.
To refer to the second largest city in a state as a small town is disingenuous, at best. However, I do agree that Lexington has worse traffic problems that it's population warrants and that is because of decisions made in the late 1960's-early 70's. The decision was made to have Lexington as a hub with limited direct routes to and from the city center to other surrounding towns. There was a deliberate decision to not have direct routes from one side of the town to the other that did not go through town first or require travel on New Circle Road.
Widening New Circle Road by itself is not going to fix the major traffic problems for the daily commuter, as it is the spokes of the circle where the most traffic problems occur, including in the regions between New Circle and Man of War. Had they created viable arteries in a grid format, even outside of New Circle, Lexington would not have these problems. It also wouldn't be as bad if they could figure out how to remove most the direct access on New Circle Road between Richmond Road and Newtown Pike.
One of my sisters lives outside of Man of War, off Harrodsburg Road, the double diamond made a huge difference in traffic and she says cut her commute by 15-20 minutes each way, so there has been some progress.
While I appreciate the classification system, I will concede. For KY, Lexington is a mid sized city. On a national scale it is DEFINITELY small town. That's ok . It is nowhere near a top 50 city and is best compared to the 4th or so largest city in most large states. As census data mentioned, Lexington's peers are Huntsville and Chattanooga and even that is pushing it.
A city that barely cracks the top 100 MSAs should not have traffic like Lexington. I still feel very strongly that widening New Circle must be the first step. Lexington has no true "in town" freeway. 64/75 functions as an effective bypass through town. Much of downtown Lexington's historic small town charm, however, is from its lack of freeways. But you pay for it with worse traffic. Ideally, Lex would have built some sort of "cross town" free way connecting the NW and SE parts of the county that sort of parallel the interstates.
Because of Lexington's compact size and college town population, there is opportunity for things like Bus Rapid Transit which must be explored. That said, Lexington traffic is not too bad. It's just unexpected for a smallish town/city. And the lack of cross town roads is frustrating.
I also think they need to add a lane to New Circle Road and man o war, that will definitely make the more traffic prone areas, if your not use to a little traffic it can be tough in a smaller metro . For example, I sat on dead stop bridge traffic for 1-2 hours in Tampa for years and commuted through 20 red lights on ulmerton road with people doing uturns in front of you constantly, so 5 straight lights on Nicholasville Road is child's play to me. Also another east west highway from 27 to the interstate would be a help. But all and all Lexington is not too bad with traffic.
Last edited by paradiselost; 07-06-2016 at 12:21 PM..
While I appreciate the classification system, I will concede. For KY, Lexington is a mid sized city. On a national scale it is DEFINITELY small town. That's ok . It is nowhere near a top 50 city and is best compared to the 4th or so largest city in most large states. As census data mentioned, Lexington's peers are Huntsville and Chattanooga and even that is pushing it.
For Kentucky, Lexington is a huge city. Only it and Louisville are first class cities and there are only 16 second class cities in the entire state. Kentucky is not a heavily populated state, even Louisville is small when compared to most state's largest city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948
A city that barely cracks the top 100 MSAs should not have traffic like Lexington. I still feel very strongly that widening New Circle must be the first step. Lexington has no true "in town" freeway. 64/75 functions as an effective bypass through town. Much of downtown Lexington's historic small town charm, however, is from its lack of freeways. But you pay for it with worse traffic. Ideally, Lex would have built some sort of "cross town" free way connecting the NW and SE parts of the county that sort of parallel the interstates.
Because of Lexington's compact size and college town population, there is opportunity for things like Bus Rapid Transit which must be explored. That said, Lexington traffic is not too bad. It's just unexpected for a smallish town/city. And the lack of cross town roads is frustrating.
I'm not sure you could convince the people of Lexington to allow a freeway to go through it if you tried bribing them. You'd have to shoot half of them first to even have a slight chance. Most of Lexington's population are very proud of their non-industrial vibe. You have to remember this is a place so insistent on keeping outer county farms that they refuse to expand their airport, even though that refusal limits business growth potential, and have forbidden development of untold millions of dollars of historic farm acreage. They aren't about to split their city for the convenience of people wanting a quicker way through the area. Not everyone or every city thinks cracking the top MSA's or being a top 50 city is worth giving up a city's unique identity. Lexington simply isn't an ideal place for anyone who wants to live a place with a true urban identity and probably won't be for some time to come, and that's okay.
However, I think they should do better with the outer traffic areas. Like I said, the double diamond on Harrodsburg Road was a good start.
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When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,480,204 times
Reputation: 12187
The only freeway Lexington should have done in hindsight would be one that went from Nicholasville and ended just south of UK. New Circle also should have been a freeway all the way around. But otherwise I don't think Lexington missed the boat at all but not building more freeways, the bad traffic gives people incentive to live close to their work. Look at all the improvements inside New Circle Rd, those areas would have declined if freeways made it easy to move 15 miles further out.
Yes. The differences are Tampa and Orlando are large metro areas. Lexington is a small town. Due to its poor roads, however, Lexington has way more traffic than its worth. Widening New Circle is long overdue, and removing the limited access highway part.
Lexington is NOT a small town. It has over 300, 000 people and is the second largest city in the state.
To call it a small town is ridiculous.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 07-06-2016 at 04:25 PM..
Reason: Against TOS
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