Should LI consolidate School Districts?

[987ABC]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

But as I was responding to the other poster he presented the example I just used it.

You acknowledge that smaller is not cost more cost effective but most other posters don't nor have I presented any statement that their would be this great savings if you consolidate. Teacher costs are not as finite as you present with so many districts programs are duplicated over and over because each district wants to have it.

In a larger school district under attended schools can receive students from over filled ones and vice versa reducing the need for new buildings. Have 1 or 2 English leads at a school board is far cheaper than having 50+, maintenance crews can support more than they currently do and transportation can be potentially reduced. The school board is more than a Superintendent and a few lead teachers and your right there are assistant Sups for different areas but they have that now in most districts so their positions are multiplied.

As I keep say you have to deal with the union and until someone grows a set and stands up to their outrageous demands nothing will change, just like the MTA, Police and Fire, they are the stumbling block to any relief for citizens.

I don't think you know what teachers do. You can consolidate every single school district in the United States into one single large district called the "United States of America School District" and you will still need to have one teacher for each classroom. So what if each small district wants to have the same academic program as every other district. You still have the same amount of kids in need of the same amount of teachers. I don't understand why this concept is so hard to understand.

As far as "new buildings" are concerned, I at least never mentioned this. Its very rare that a school district needs to build a new building. The same would be true is you consolidated school districts. In any event, a new building will cost the same whether a small district is paying for it or a large district is paying for it.

I have no idea what an "English lead" is. If its something akin to a department chair, you are kidding yourself if you think that a single person can manage county-wide or LI-wide programing by themselves. Again, as alluded to in earlier posts, its only in internet forum fantasy land that you can take a person that manages something at one LI SD and claim that he or she can now manage the same thing for all of Nassau and/or Suffolk County. The same is true for the superintendent's office. A typical LI SD may have a superintendent and two deputy superintendents. These 3 people can't manage a SD that serves a population of 2 million people!!!! Your hypothetical consolidated SD will need many of these persons. And none will work for free. In total, you will likely be able to trim <some> of these positions, but the difference will be trivial.

Are your maintenance crews going to beam from facility to facility like they do in Star Trek? How much more do you think they can cover than what they do now? Its not going to be much.

Savings on transportation costs?? But I thought proponents of consolidation say no one will be changing schools, so no one should worry. (The mantra is: If your kid goes to Garden City HS now, than he or she will continue to go to GCHS with the same exact kids.) If this is true, how are transportation costs going to be shaved?

You need to listen to yourself when you make your point about union power. You want to create a county or LI wide consolidated district? Wouldn't that just make the union stronger?

[ovi8]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

For the metro Richmond area I just looked, for a Secondary School English teacher the position is offered at 44.7K - 79K there is a math and history position posted at the same range. I tried to pick basic teaching positions, here is a link to the benefits https://henricoschools.us/benefits/.

Yet they can afford those $500k+ homes on those salaries...

A home there in NoVA with equal size and condition to mine is $200k more with $7k/year less taxes. They can afford it fine without outrageous union salaries. Great Scott! How is that happening?

[monstermagnet]

Originally Posted by 987ABC

I don't think you know what teachers do. You can consolidate every single school district in the United States into one single large district called the "United States of America School District" and you will still need to have one teacher for each classroom. So what if each small district wants to have the same academic program as every other district. You still have the same amount of kids in need of the same amount of teachers. I don't understand why this concept is so hard to understand.

As far as "new buildings" are concerned, I at least never mentioned this. Its very rare that a school district needs to build a new building. The same would be true is you consolidated school districts. In any event, a new building will cost the same whether a small district is paying for it or a large district is paying for it.

I have no idea what an "English lead" is. If its something akin to a department chair, you are kidding yourself if you think that a single person can manage county-wide or LI-wide programing by themselves. Again, as alluded to in earlier posts, its only in internet forum fantasy land that you can take a person that manages something at one LI SD and claim that he or she can now manage the same thing for all of Nassau and/or Suffolk County. The same is true for the superintendent's office. A typical LI SD may have a superintendent and two deputy superintendents. These 3 people can't manage a SD that serves a population of 2 million people!!!! Your hypothetical consolidated SD will need many of these persons. And none will work for free. In total, you will likely be able to trim <some> of these positions, but the difference will be trivial.

Are your maintenance crews going to beam from facility to facility like they do in Star Trek? How much more do you think they can cover than what they do now? Its not going to be much.

Savings on transportation costs?? But I thought proponents of consolidation say no one will be changing schools, so no one should worry. (The mantra is: If your kid goes to Garden City HS now, than he or she will continue to go to GCHS with the same exact kids.) If this is true, how are transportation costs going to be shaved?

You need to listen to yourself when you make your point about union power. You want to create a county or LI wide consolidated district? Wouldn't that just make the union stronger?

Yes, plus most of those Admin positions are mandated by NYSED and the district may lose state aid if the position remains vacant. The state is in the business of educating kids and there are baseline mandatory programs (per No Child left behind, Common Core, now ESSA and going back years). Even LI local control is a bit of a charade. NYSED says jump, districts jump...or face losing that precious state aid. Losing state aid = higher taxes. Fed and State Ed mandates are budget killers. Except for opting out of exams at the whim of some disingenuous teachers/unions, not much of a LI voice for Ed reform. Just venting and finger pointing...while they elect the same ineffectual boards over and over to negotiate contracts for them then wonder.......

[IMG][/IMG]

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by 987ABC

I don't think you know what teachers do. You can consolidate every single school district in the United States into one single large district called the "United States of America School District" and you will still need to have one teacher for each classroom. So what if each small district wants to have the same academic program as every other district. You still have the same amount of kids in need of the same amount of teachers. I don't understand why this concept is so hard to understand.

As far as "new buildings" are concerned, I at least never mentioned this. Its very rare that a school district needs to build a new building. The same would be true is you consolidated school districts. In any event, a new building will cost the same whether a small district is paying for it or a large district is paying for it.

I have no idea what an "English lead" is. If its something akin to a department chair, you are kidding yourself if you think that a single person can manage county-wide or LI-wide programing by themselves. Again, as alluded to in earlier posts, its only in internet forum fantasy land that you can take a person that manages something at one LI SD and claim that he or she can now manage the same thing for all of Nassau and/or Suffolk County. The same is true for the superintendent's office. A typical LI SD may have a superintendent and two deputy superintendents. These 3 people can't manage a SD that serves a population of 2 million people!!!! Your hypothetical consolidated SD will need many of these persons. And none will work for free. In total, you will likely be able to trim <some> of these positions, but the difference will be trivial.

Are your maintenance crews going to beam from facility to facility like they do in Star Trek? How much more do you think they can cover than what they do now? Its not going to be much.

Savings on transportation costs?? But I thought proponents of consolidation say no one will be changing schools, so no one should worry. (The mantra is: If your kid goes to Garden City HS now, than he or she will continue to go to GCHS with the same exact kids.) If this is true, how are transportation costs going to be shaved?

You need to listen to yourself when you make your point about union power. You want to create a county or LI wide consolidated district? Wouldn't that just make the union stronger?

Let me start with I work for a county wide school district so I think I have a pretty good impression of what teachers do. Living and working in an area that growing we do need to add additional building due to growth and some build them because it's more cost efficient to build a replacement than renovate a 50+ year old campus.

English lead is a Department Chair (as an example) and we have only 1, a larger county may have several people but not 50+ and only 1 is the lead. A districts curriculum is establish by the central office (IAW state/fed requirements...etc) once it is created and approved it can be applied as far and wide as applicable or in our case at every ES, MS and HS school why do you think it can't? Did we not all take Regents exams in HS, are they not created by the state and administered to all students (at least in my day)?

A 3 person School Board, see the 2 links I placed for the other poster there are far more people than that involved. Maintenance crews can cover more than 1 or 2 building and they can drive, our crews are based out of each HS corridor with each team maintaining several schools, as needed they help each other with manpower or skill sets.

If this every happened which I know it won't attendance may need to be modified, posters have stated how they travel past school x to school y which is theirs; a constructive look would probably stream line much of the es attendance, but again it won't happen.

I stated that the union needs to be reeled in,I know it can't be eliminated but they are the primary reason that school tax costs what it does.

[nuts2uiam]

Originally Posted by 987ABC

I don't think you know what teachers do. You can consolidate every single school district in the United States into one single large district called the "United States of America School District" and you will still need to have one teacher for each classroom. So what if each small district wants to have the same academic program as every other district. You still have the same amount of kids in need of the same amount of teachers. I don't understand why this concept is so hard to understand.

As far as "new buildings" are concerned, I at least never mentioned this. Its very rare that a school district needs to build a new building. The same would be true is you consolidated school districts. In any event, a new building will cost the same whether a small district is paying for it or a large district is paying for it.

I have no idea what an "English lead" is. If its something akin to a department chair, you are kidding yourself if you think that a single person can manage county-wide or LI-wide programing by themselves. Again, as alluded to in earlier posts, its only in internet forum fantasy land that you can take a person that manages something at one LI SD and claim that he or she can now manage the same thing for all of Nassau and/or Suffolk County. The same is true for the superintendent's office. A typical LI SD may have a superintendent and two deputy superintendents. These 3 people can't manage a SD that serves a population of 2 million people!!!! Your hypothetical consolidated SD will need many of these persons. And none will work for free. In total, you will likely be able to trim <some> of these positions, but the difference will be trivial.

Are your maintenance crews going to beam from facility to facility like they do in Star Trek? How much more do you think they can cover than what they do now? Its not going to be much.

Savings on transportation costs?? But I thought proponents of consolidation say no one will be changing schools, so no one should worry. (The mantra is: If your kid goes to Garden City HS now, than he or she will continue to go to GCHS with the same exact kids.) If this is true, how are transportation costs going to be shaved?

You need to listen to yourself when you make your point about union power. You want to create a county or LI wide consolidated district? Wouldn't that just make the union stronger?

Yes, but currently, there are multiple classes of the same grade and if the district went by the numbers it would be a lopsided classroom. Here is what I am speaking about, I'll keep the numbers rounded for ease. Let's say 20 students is the number set as a guideline for the 3rd grade in ABC school. Currently there are 30 students in the 3rd grade. They will put 15 & 15 in each. Essentially leaving 5 places in each class that are "open". If LI consolidated their districts, those 10 spaces would be filled in by students and the need for several additional sections would be eliminated. There would be considerable gain if you look at every school island wide or county wide.

I taught for a while on LI and then moved and could not get a job when I came back, so I too have experience in this world. Before you say it is not possible, I would suggest that you look at the Catholic schools on LI. In many cases enrollment was dropping off due to costs of tuition, so they went with regional schools and they are flourishing. It can be done.