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Your observations are right on target. What most of the people beating up the cops on this thread don't understand is that being a cop is not simply a job -- it's a life. Most, if not all, departments require cops to be armed at all times and to take police action when necessary -- even while off duty. Then there's the holidays and weekends away from family, etc. And you're right, it gets a bit sticky when you run into someone in the grocery store that you arrested the week before. He's not going to be real happy to see you.
The part of this discussion that hasn't been brought up and that needs airing is that higher salaries for police inhibit systematic corruption in departments. That was a recommendation from the sixties when policing in America was under attack. Witness the New Orleans Police Department, previously one of the most corrupt departments in the country. Their pay was among the lowest -- and it showed. The bottom line is you get what you pay for. Higher salaries allow Long Island departments to get the best candidates (a competitive process based on written exams, physical and medical screening and thorough background checks). In return, Long Island residents get departments free of systematic corruption.
And while we're talking about taxes, take a good look at your tax bill. Your police taxes are significantly smaller than your school taxes. Cops making competitive salaries are not driving anybody off the Island. The issue of a 75k base salary is irrelevant (starting salary in Nassau, by the way, is about 34k). The NYC Police Department attracted only about 40% of its needed recruits to its last academy class. The reason: poor pay. NYC cops jump at the chance to take the Nassau and Suffolk tests. The reason: poor pay. Since local cops need to live locally, they also need to be able to afford to live here. They don't have the luxury of relocating their business or employment. The salaries of cops are what they are and no amount of complaining or polling is going to change that.
By the way, from the results above, it doesn't seem that there is an overwhelming majority in the "scientific" poll that believe cops are overpaid. Just bolsters my argument that a personal agenda is at work here.
BTW
Is that Double Time and a half for weekends and holidays these days Officer?
Or is it just Double Time ?
As for dragging NOPD in...shame on you.
Comparing the Suburban Gold Coast of LI to Americas poorest City.
Thats Potect and Serve, this is Loot and Pillage.
Sadly I believe many(not all) are just here for a Paycheck and a Pension.
A GED or HS Diploma doesnt afford too many 100k plus jobs these days.
Theres no wonder why were swarmed with applicants.
Is that Double Time and a half for weekends and holidays these days Officer?
Or is it just Double Time ?
As for dragging NOPD in...shame on you.
Comparing the Suburban Gold Coast of LI to Americas poorest City.
Thats Potect and Serve, this is Loot and Pillage.
Sadly I believe many(not all) are just here for a Paycheck and a Pension.
A GED or HS Diploma doesnt afford too many 100k plus jobs these days.
Theres no wonder why were swarmed with applicants.
C
This discussion would be so much better if you had the facts. There is no overtime/double time for weekends. And as far as NOPD, the corruption problems they have experienced in the past are the subject of much academic study and held up as an example of how low salaries impact police performance. Note that I used the word "previously." This has nothing to do with Hurricane Katrina or the current department.
And while you keep hitting on the HS diploma, that is merely a minimum requirement for entry (in Suffolk County). The reality of situation is that many recruits have a college education and most, if not all, supervisory personnel have a bachelor's degree or higher. The constant refrain of "100k for only a GED" sure sounds a lot like jealousy.
This discussion would be so much better if you had the facts. There is no overtime/double time for weekends. And as far as NOPD, the corruption problems they have experienced in the past are the subject of much academic study and held up as an example of how low salaries impact police performance. Note that I used the word "previously." This has nothing to do with Hurricane Katrina or the current department.
And while you keep hitting on the HS diploma, that is merely a minimum requirement for entry (in Suffolk County). The reality of situation is that many recruits have a college education and most, if not all, supervisory personnel have a bachelor's degree or higher. The constant refrain of "100k for only a GED" sure sounds a lot like jealousy.
"100k for only a GED" is a fact.
Or is it a sore point over dinner conversation for your average mediocre Cop?
Who knows.
No holiday differential...Thats a heartbreaker.
Whats a LI cop with GED to do?
I guess straight overtime will have to suffice.
Whats that about $100 an hour?
Your observations are right on target. What most of the people beating up the cops on this thread don't understand is that being a cop is not simply a job -- it's a life. Most, if not all, departments require cops to be armed at all times and to take police action when necessary -- even while off duty. Then there's the holidays and weekends away from family, etc. And you're right, it gets a bit sticky when you run into someone in the grocery store that you arrested the week before. He's not going to be real happy to see you.
The part of this discussion that hasn't been brought up and that needs airing is that higher salaries for police inhibit systematic corruption in departments. That was a recommendation from the sixties when policing in America was under attack. Witness the New Orleans Police Department, previously one of the most corrupt departments in the country. Their pay was among the lowest -- and it showed. The bottom line is you get what you pay for. Higher salaries allow Long Island departments to get the best candidates (a competitive process based on written exams, physical and medical screening and thorough background checks). In return, Long Island residents get departments free of systematic corruption.
And while we're talking about taxes, take a good look at your tax bill. Your police taxes are significantly smaller than your school taxes. Cops making competitive salaries are not driving anybody off the Island. The issue of a 75k base salary is irrelevant (starting salary in Nassau, by the way, is about 34k). The NYC Police Department attracted only about 40% of its needed recruits to its last academy class. The reason: poor pay. NYC cops jump at the chance to take the Nassau and Suffolk tests. The reason: poor pay. Since local cops need to live locally, they also need to be able to afford to live here. They don't have the luxury of relocating their business or employment. The salaries of cops are what they are and no amount of complaining or polling is going to change that.
By the way, from the results above, it doesn't seem that there is an overwhelming majority in the "scientific" poll that believe cops are overpaid. Just bolsters my argument that a personal agenda is at work here.
The discussion, again, is not whether or not somebody should be paid a million dollars for putting their life on the line, the discussion is whether or not Suffolk County would get the same qualified applicants at a lower cost. I agree, objectively speaking, with the concept that Suffolk County would still get a significant amount of interest and the same level of quality applicants if the job paid the same as NYC, and even required an Associates as a minimum. If your only argument to that is that cops, firefighters, EMT's, military officers and teachers all deserve to be paid millions, well then that is not an argument it is an entirely different discussion. If you want to debate other parts of the tax bill that again, is an entirely different discussion. If you honestly feel that Suffolk County could not attract city paid police officers at the same salary level as the nypd, then fine. I think they would and could. Everything else is drama and noise, and not related to the thread. The "overpaid" reference could be viewed as what the market will bear, rather than some insult to the great jobs our police departments do. As for the systemic corruption issues. Corruption in my opinion happens regardless of salary level. Greed is a trait not brought on by being undervalued in the marketplace. Good procedures and internal controls prohibit corruption. Salaries are irrelevant.
Honestly folks is 34k starting pay to much? Be very honest here please. use common sense. I have been saying this the whole time, the starting pay is not crazy. with time they make more just like every other union job. I dont want to hear it is a tax job either. because we pay for all services weather it is through taxes or not. Starting pay for a deli manager in a supermarket is 45k. Fact folks I know. I know clammie now it is a deli guy. Just stating facts to support an argument. should the cops starting out be paid less then the balogna guy? be honest. All I hear is 100k here , I doubt they all make that. Just like I know a bunch of teachers that make 100-120k , do they all make that? I was told flat out no on this board. Both professions make money over time. I want to know what is starting salary for a high school english teacher. please be honest here. How many people on this board will work for 34k? How many can afford to live on the island making 34k? Yea I know when ever someone brings up valid points they are totally ignored or talked around , never are they debated. 34k debate it. 34k tell me how that is good pay and you know tons of kids out of college that want that. Dont think so, I know a bunch that would laugh at it. Sorry truth here. Ok tell me that the market cant bear it , what market? I will tell you what the market cant bear,it is LIPA and oil. and car ins and every other over inflated expense we pay for.I had to pull an old tax bill out 5646.00 total ha now 6600. anyway 3164.17 for school and 769.13 for county police garbage 459.07 and fire district 259 library 229. I dont know maybe I am stupid here but if we cut cops a third we are not saveing much considering all of that 769 is not just for cops salaries. Lets just cut that 769 by a third though for fun, it is 512 we save 256 a year 21.00 a month. realisticly alot less if we cut just there salaries. at 512 they are on par with the garbage man. now cut school by a third we save 1054 a year 87 a month , big difference . I dont know maybe I am a total dope or something, but I think our cops should be paid more than the garbage man.Still cant figure the fire district thing though I thought it was volunteer and donations.Maybe I am a dope. peace and take care
The discussion, again, is not whether or not somebody should be paid a million dollars for putting their life on the line, the discussion is whether or not Suffolk County would get the same qualified applicants at a lower cost. I agree, objectively speaking, with the concept that Suffolk County would still get a significant amount of interest and the same level of quality applicants if the job paid the same as NYC, and even required an Associates as a minimum. If your only argument to that is that cops, firefighters, EMT's, military officers and teachers all deserve to be paid millions, well then that is not an argument it is an entirely different discussion. If you want to debate other parts of the tax bill that again, is an entirely different discussion. If you honestly feel that Suffolk County could not attract city paid police officers at the same salary level as the nypd, then fine. I think they would and could. Everything else is drama and noise, and not related to the thread. The "overpaid" reference could be viewed as what the market will bear, rather than some insult to the great jobs our police departments do. As for the systemic corruption issues. Corruption in my opinion happens regardless of salary level. Greed is a trait not brought on by being undervalued in the marketplace. Good procedures and internal controls prohibit corruption. Salaries are irrelevant.
Sigh,
jrp
Unfortunately, salaries are not irrelevant. Systematic corruption (and the operative word is systematic) is all about a culture that allows (and sometimes condones) corruption. It is a fact in the world of policing that with higher salaries comes less systematic corruption. A primary underlying cause of the systematic corruption that is tolerated is low salaries and a perception that the monies gained through systematic corruption are an entitlement because of those low salaries. Higher salaries negate the need for corruptive behavior.
As far as cops making millions, nobody's said that. What is being said is that cops salaries are not out of line with other similar middle class types of jobs on Long Island. It apparently bothers some people a whole lot that it's now six figure incomes for some of the members of local departments. And yes, it's all about the market. If the cost of living (especially housing) were significantly lower on Long Island, cops' salaries would likewise be lower. And the argument that we could attract lots of people to take the jobs with NYC-like salaries is a moot point. The salaries aren't that low and will never be that low. They are what they are.
Honestly folks is 34k starting pay to much? Be very honest here please. use common sense. I have been saying this the whole time, the starting pay is not crazy. with time they make more just like every other union job. I dont want to hear it is a tax job either. because we pay for all services weather it is through taxes or not. Starting pay for a deli manager in a supermarket is 45k. Fact folks I know. I know clammie now it is a deli guy. Just stating facts to support an argument. should the cops starting out be paid less then the balogna guy? be honest. All I hear is 100k here , I doubt they all make that. Just like I know a bunch of teachers that make 100-120k , do they all make that? I was told flat out no on this board. Both professions make money over time. I want to know what is starting salary for a high school english teacher. please be honest here. How many people on this board will work for 34k? How many can afford to live on the island making 34k? Yea I know when ever someone brings up valid points they are totally ignored or talked around , never are they debated. 34k debate it. 34k tell me how that is good pay and you know tons of kids out of college that want that. Dont think so, I know a bunch that would laugh at it. Sorry truth here. Ok tell me that the market cant bear it , what market? I will tell you what the market cant bear,it is LIPA and oil. and car ins and every other over inflated expense we pay for.I had to pull an old tax bill out 5646.00 total ha now 6600. anyway 3164.17 for school and 769.13 for county police garbage 459.07 and fire district 259 library 229. I dont know maybe I am stupid here but if we cut cops a third we are not saveing much considering all of that 769 is not just for cops salaries. Lets just cut that 769 by a third though for fun, it is 512 we save 256 a year 21.00 a month. realisticly alot less if we cut just there salaries. at 512 they are on par with the garbage man. now cut school by a third we save 1054 a year 87 a month , big difference . I dont know maybe I am a total dope or something, but I think our cops should be paid more than the garbage man.Still cant figure the fire district thing though I thought it was volunteer and donations.Maybe I am a dope. peace and take care
Exactly my point(s). It's all relative. And as far the fire departments go, that's Long Island's dirty little secret. You pay taxes for your "volunteer" service. In fact, for the money you pay for that "volunteer" service we could establish and staff a full-time professional department. By the way, the donations you give to your local fire department are used to buy t-shirts and beer -- not fire equipment. It's an incredible scam.
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You are missing the point...
