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Except for Independent Incorporated Fire Companies (IIFCs), there are two separate entities: the Fire District and the Fire Department.
The Fire District levies a property tax on property within the Fire District to cover the capital and operating costs of the district, and as long as the fire district property tax rate is less than a state mandated level, there is no community vote on this budget.
The Fire Department, oftentimes using district equipment for which they do not reimburse the district for the use of this equipment, has fund drives, etc., etc., and uses these funds to upgrade personal gear (jackets, etc., etc.) to beyond what the department is legally allowed to spend, as well as to pay for beer, etc.
All of the operating costs for Long Island fire departments come from tax dollars. All of the fundraising (tournaments, chicken dinners, door to door extortion) all go to the "good and welfare" funds of the individual departments. In other words it pays for the beer, the parties and all of the other little perks. None of the donated monies go to running the departments.
The money from the annual fund drive and other fundrasiers are turned over to the department. There is no "good and welfare" fund. The money you donate does go to help cover operating costs. On a side note many people do not seem to know that fire depts. pay the water company for every hydrant in their district annually. The fire dept is also billed for upgrade and repairs of all hydrants.
Ok take away their perks and establish a paid FD.What do you think that would cost you in increased Taxes on your home?A very large increase for sure is my guess.I think a survey/estimate should be done to determine this rather than everyone just guessing,mean while apathy prevails as usual.
I joined the vol. fire service in 1990. I was 18 years old and had no prior ties to the fire dept. At the time I joined there was no LOSAP (pension) no tax breaks (which I do not get) no tuition reduction. So with no experience or reward going into this you can see my motive to waste taxpayer money. However my decision to join was a good one, after a year or two I trained to become an EMT (so I could further help my community) or as you see it waste taxpayer money. The EMT training led to a job with FDNY EMS where I would later become the first responding FDNY EMS unit on 9/11. I credit my survival that day to the training i received.....guess where that's right your tax dollars again. Now on the point of drill team racing. When I joined we only had one operating piece of apparatus to race with (normally its 2 pieces are required to participate). So for 2 years we went to tournaments and participated in half the events. Eventually a member donated a engine so we could restore our old rig all dept paid for was installation (not a bad price for a 427 L-88 vette engine). We than went to the TOH yard found an old trailer used to move heavy machinery that was on the scrap heap restored it and used it to transport our racing rigs from place to place. Most if not all of the money for the other needed equipment came from fundrasiers or a soda machine the drill team ran at the firehouse. Some larger departments spend quite a bit more on racing teams. But in turn these larger depts. often host tournaments along with a parade and block party or carnival. A large tournament can often generate 10's of thousands for these depts. So perhaps the waste is not as rampant as it seems. As for engines, ladders and rescue trucks fire dept. standards are set by the state and requirements are set high. Also keep in mind Iam doing this for free so I kind of do want the very best equipment available....another waste of taxpayer dollars (but its only my safety). My fire district has a tank farm 4 250,000 gallon oil tanks, 2 500,000 tanks and 1 750,000 gallon tank......I really don't think its a big deal if we have to wait 15-20min for a pumper to come from somewhere across the county to help. (do you?) Lastly the fire house our golden mecca in the publics eyes. Much of the work you see in my dept. (the dreaded bar) was built by members with mostly donated materials (i know what your thinking the taxpayers are getting raped here). Do any of you recall the snow storms last year? In one 36 hour standby we answered 56 calls. I suppose during the time standing by we should not have a nice TV or some where to sit (we can just stand and stare at the wall). Here is just a small list of some of the things your wasted tax dollars have paid for: 9 post cardiac arrest saves, 4 babies delivered, 3 days of non stop of fighting wildfies in suffolk, 2 days upstate during flooding, 9/11 form date of event until end of recovery 3 years later, plane crash in rockaway, recuse of 3 family members from a working house fire. This is just a fraction of what your tax dollars have produced from one firefighter. I want to finish by saying you can feel safe knowing I will continue to respond to all emergencies and conduct myself in a courteous respectful and professional manner...........All at the same time as I waste your tax dollars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FDNYMedic
The money from the annual fund drive and other fundrasiers are turned over to the department. There is no "good and welfare" fund. The money you donate does go to help cover operating costs. On a side note many people do not seem to know that fire depts. pay the water company for every hydrant in their district annually. The fire dept is also billed for upgrade and repairs of all hydrants.
Good posts, and your service is appreciated. You are not a waste of taxpayer dollars, nor is anyone else...barring some corrupt folks receiving a paycheck and providing nothing of value to the county. Even our highest paid employees (mostly PD) are worth it. It's just a matter of can people afford to keep paying it.
I took a look at a random tax bill to get an idea of what it costs to run a Fire Department on LI> This is from a random median valued ($500k) house on Ohio Ave in Massapequa, Massapequa Fire District:
SPECIAL DISTRICT TAXES (not funded through sales tax revenues)
313- Massapequa Water District 1,311 11.375 $149.13
336- Massapequa Fire District 1,311 20.58 $269.80
NASSAU COUNTY TAXES (also funded with sales tax revenues)
31P- County Police Headquarters 1,311 49.347 $646.94
33- County Police 1,311 66.393 $870.41
329- Sewage Collection District #3-S 1,311 6.757 $88.58
339- Nassau County Sewage Disposal District #3 1,311 16.125 $211.40
The most logical services to compare Fire Departments to would likely be Police. Here, you can see that to run the County Police, crime lab, NCPD HQ (essentially most public safety services) etc, it costs nearly 6x as much (870+646). This is not including sales tax revenues which also go towards running the NCPD. Judging from the county budget, the NCPD costs about what the entire county tax bill is in property tax dollar terms --- that would bring it to about $2200 for a house with this assessment (or roughly about nine times the cost of the Fire Department). Even though it only shows as ~$1500 on your tax bill.
This is only to get an idea of the little cost involved here. As mentioned, they are also funded through donations, fundraising events, door-to-door (last 12-pack was on me boys),.. Is there a lot of waste in the Fire Departments across LI? I'd say there's definitely some. These racing games should be put to an end - solely because of the potential liability posed to taxpayers. If there are rigs that aren't needed, maybe they should be sold off too.
Quote:
TAX LEVY DESCRIPTION TAXABLE VALUE TAX RATE PER $100 TAXABLE AMOUNT
NASSAU COUNTY TAXES
31C- County General Fund 1,311 22.204 $291.09
31E- County Environmental Bond 1,311 1.875 $24.58
31F- Fire Prevention 1,311 2.535 $33.23
31N- Nassau Community College 1,311 8.553 $112.13
31P- County Police Headquarters 1,311 49.347 $646.94
329- Sewage Collection District #3-S 1,311 6.757 $88.58
33- County Police 1,311 66.393 $870.41
339- Nassau County Sewage Disposal District #3 1,311 16.125 $211.40
THE TOTAL OF YOUR NASSAU COUNTY TAXES: $2,278.36
TOWN OF OYSTER BAY TAXES
31T- Town General Fund 1,311 24.51 $321.33
323- Town of Oyster Bay Lighting District 1,311 3.659 $47.97
32H- Town Highway 1,311 35.424 $464.41
32T- Town Building Dept, Zoning & Appeals, Unincorporated Area 1,311 8.247 $108.12
355- Town of Oyster Bay Solid Waste Disposal District 1,311 12.58 $164.92
359- Massapequa Park District 1,311 19.285 $252.83
393- Garbage District #1 Garbage District 1,311 20.665 $270.92
3A- Town of Oyster Bay - Unincorporated Area Public Parking District 1,311 3.834 $50.26
3D- Unincorporated Area of District #1 1,311 4.51 $59.13
THE TOTAL OF YOUR TOWN OF OYSTER BAY TAXES: $1,739.89
SPECIAL DISTRICT TAXES
313- Massapequa Water District 1,311 11.375 $149.13
336- Massapequa Fire District 1,311 20.58 $269.80
THE TOTAL OF YOUR SPECIAL DISTRICT TAXES: $418.93
The comparison should be between the fire district and only county police, and not include county police headquarters, which includes detectives, labs and other specialty services.
Good posts, and your service is appreciated. You are not a waste of taxpayer dollars, nor is anyone else...barring some corrupt folks receiving a paycheck and providing nothing of value to the county. Even our highest paid employees (mostly PD) are worth it. It's just a matter of can people afford to keep paying it.
I took a look at a random tax bill to get an idea of what it costs to run a Fire Department on LI> This is from a random median valued ($500k) house on Ohio Ave in Massapequa, Massapequa Fire District:
SPECIAL DISTRICT TAXES (not funded through sales tax revenues)
313- Massapequa Water District 1,311 11.375 $149.13
336- Massapequa Fire District 1,311 20.58 $269.80
NASSAU COUNTY TAXES (also funded with sales tax revenues)
31P- County Police Headquarters 1,311 49.347 $646.94
33- County Police 1,311 66.393 $870.41
329- Sewage Collection District #3-S 1,311 6.757 $88.58
339- Nassau County Sewage Disposal District #3 1,311 16.125 $211.40
The most logical services to compare Fire Departments to would likely be Police. Here, you can see that to run the County Police, crime lab, NCPD HQ (essentially most public safety services) etc, it costs nearly 6x as much (870+646). This is not including sales tax revenues which also go towards running the NCPD. Judging from the county budget, the NCPD costs about what the entire county tax bill is in property tax dollar terms --- that would bring it to about $2500 for a house with this assessment (or roughly about ten times the cost of the Fire Department). Even though it only shows as ~$1500 on your tax bill.
This is only to get an idea of the little cost involved here. As mentioned, they are also funded through donations, fundraising events, door-to-door (last 12-pack was on me boys),.. Is there a lot of waste in the Fire Departments across LI? I'd say there's definitely some. These racing games should be put to an end - solely because of the potential liability posed to taxpayers. If there are rigs that aren't needed, maybe they should be sold off too.
You're comparing apples to oranges. You're attempting to compare the cost per household of a county-wide service versus the cost of a service that covers a few square miles and a fraction of the population. For a more realistic number, take a look at the combined budgets (provided through taxpayer dollars) of the 71 fire departments in Nassau County and then tell me how cheap it is to run the service.
Take a look at the combined budgets (provided through taxpayer dollars) of the 71 fire departments in Nassau County and then tell me how cheap it is to run the service.
Do not forget the 25 fire protection districts and fire protection areas that collect property taxes from property within their districts and then contract with and pay one of the 71 districts that have a department to provide fire protection services.
You're comparing apples to oranges. You're attempting to compare the cost per household of a county-wide service versus the cost of a service that covers a few square miles and a fraction of the population. For a more realistic number, take a look at the combined budgets (provided through taxpayer dollars) of the 71 fire departments in Nassau County and then tell me how cheap it is to run the service.
But if you get rid of all the small nassau districts and combine it into 1 large Nassau FD would you not have the same thing. Sure you would have fewer large trucks but you would also have manpower costs 24x7.
PDCN: this is not directed at you but is for some of the previous posters
If every household in nassau is paying the same as the 2 lines for the Nassau PD (around $1500 if I remember from the previous post) how can you say the $269 for the FD X every household makes the FD cost almost as much as the PD. Seem like it cost less than 1/4 to me.
walter:
why not include county police headquarters, can the PD operate without it. The cost for residents PD service is both tax lines and in the sample bill the FD is chump change compaired to the PD. Notice the line Massapequa Park District, it's almost as much as the FD. A lot of money to spend to play Football and be able to lanch your boat.
walter:
why not include county police headquarters, can the PD operate without it.
No, but county police headquaters serves the same function as the county fire marshal, whose cost is not included in fire district budgets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevink1955
Notice the line Massapequa Park District, it's almost as much as the FD. A lot of money to spend to play Football and be able to lanch your boat.
That's another area that needs some investigation as to how it is calculated and what it covers (bear in mind that the large TOB town parks are paid for from the town's general budget).
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Food for thought.
),.. Is there a lot of waste in the Fire Departments across LI? I'd say there's definitely some. These racing games should be put to an end - solely because of the potential liability posed to taxpayers. If there are rigs that aren't needed, maybe they should be sold off too.
