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Thats the biggest misconception right now about lawyers and jobs/salaries. Its been a downward trend for a while now - there are numerous articles in the NY Times and Wall St Journal about how law firms are outsourcing most of the work to Asia, leaving work traditionally done by American lawyers in the dust. My first lawyer job paid $42K and that was doing PIP defense for a no-name auto ins company in the financial district back in 2001. (and.. no, I did not graduate last in my class from a lower ranked law school like CUNY Queens, Touro or NYLS..) One of my friends' cousins just graduated from Hofstra Law and told me they received 2 offers out of 500 resumes sent - and they were small personal injury shops paying $35K, and another one that only wanted him to appear as a per diem (court appearances only). Yes, its bad out there for lawyers and its only going to get worse as law schools continue charging exorbitant tuition leaving many recent law grads jobless and up to $100-250K+ in non-dischargeable student loan debt. It is so bad that this guy was driven to suicide over it:
I am a volunteer alumni career contact for my undergrad and always tell students not to bother with a JD unless they get into a (1) top 5 law school, and (2) secure a big law firm job or federal clerkship immediately after graduation. Theres no guarantee of anything in law - as the 2008 crash resulted in massive layoffs at large firms like Skadden, Willkie Farr, Proskauer - and many of those 1st/2nd year associates with NO legal experience were told to take a hike. I believe higher education is the next bubble to burst. The only lawyers really "raking it in" (and by raking it in, I mean $160K+ salary) are solos with decades of experience, attorneys slaving for Skadden-type firms, or itinerant doc review attorneys working 80-100 hr/week shifts. Everyone else competes for the remaining scraps.
How depressing your post must be for anyone currently in law school.
It's really not worth it. It probably makes more sense to get an accounting degree than most other professional areas...every company needs someone grinding out the books....it's boring work and the pay isn't great but it always seems to be there.
Of course the health care field will only expand as the population ages so that's another area to look at.
Anyone with kids going into college should steer them away from law.
Only way to make real money in this economy is via Wall Street, corporate management, big law or owning your own business or real estate or to inherit it! The first three are all in Manhattan (why would they move to Long Island). The last three are only for the select few lucky or skilled or combo of both. By definition you can't build a critical mass of high paying jobs in the last three categories as they only describe a small % of the population. So the only way for LI to attract high paying jobs en masse is to attract corporations that pay high wages. Why would those corporations locate on a super expensive island that is difficult to get to with mediocre universities, high prop taxes, corrupt govt, NIMBYism, need to compete with Manhattan wages, etc. Just doesn't make sense. The future of Long Island is rich and poor with not much in the middle except govt workers who have no choice but to live here and those who are supported by rich mom and dad. It's only going to get worse now that tolls and LIRR went up again and prop tax increases have no end in sight. Rich or poor is the future. Middle class on LI is dead. Some doctors and dentists can still make big money if they are established, but there is such an oversaturation of these people on LI that is tough to do that today starting out with student loans, practice loans, declining reimbursements, Obamacare, etc.
Great post! However I disagree with the "need to compete with Manhattan wages." Long Island employers do not and will not compete with those. Long Island employers consider the time and money saved on commuting to Manhattan by their employees THEIR savings, often foisting longer working hours on staff and downsizing pay much more than "proportionately" less to make up for lack of public transit costs. Why do you think this thread was started in the first place?
The only ways to get a Long Island employer to actually compete with Manhattan compensation-wise that I have ever seen are:
1. Get a job in the Manhattan office of a company and then transfer to a Long Island office if they have one. They will usually not have the ballz to try and force a paycut.
2. If you see a Long Island position advertised by a Manhattan headhunter, that means the Long Island employer is desperate and cannot find the skills they need on LI, and may pay at or near Manhattan wages. The trick to getting those wages, is DO NOT ADMIT YOU LIVE ON LONG ISLAND. If you do so, most of them will feel no shame whatsoever in lowballing you ridiculously. Claim to live in NYC and be willing to "reverse commute" to Long Island. (Then later on once you have the job annouce you "moved" to Long Island.)
How depressing your post must be for anyone currently in law school.
It's really not worth it. It probably makes more sense to get an accounting degree than most other professional areas...every company needs someone grinding out the books....it's boring work and the pay isn't great but it always seems to be there.
Of course the health care field will only expand as the population ages so that's another area to look at.
Anyone with kids going into college should steer them away from law.
She speaks the truth.
There are too many schlock law schools in this country turning out too many lawyers. We have a glut of them.
How depressing your post must be for anyone currently in law school.
It's really not worth it. It probably makes more sense to get an accounting degree than most other professional areas...every company needs someone grinding out the books....it's boring work and the pay isn't great but it always seems to be there.
Of course the health care field will only expand as the population ages so that's another area to look at.
Anyone with kids going into college should steer them away from law.
My friend is an accountant 3 years removed from college and now regrets going to school for it. Said it's the most boring job in the world, like watching paint dry.
8-9 hours of sitting at a desk and just crunching numbers all day.
The quintessential "cubicle" job.....
During tax season the days increase to 12 hours......8am to 8pm. It's no coincidence that since he graduated he gained about 20 pounds lol!!
Thats the biggest misconception right now about lawyers and jobs/salaries. Its been a downward trend for a while now - there are numerous articles in the NY Times and Wall St Journal about how law firms are outsourcing most of the work to Asia, leaving work traditionally done by American lawyers in the dust. My first lawyer job paid $42K and that was doing PIP defense for a no-name auto ins company in the financial district back in 2001. (and.. no, I did not graduate last in my class from a lower ranked law school like CUNY Queens, Touro or NYLS..) One of my friends' cousins just graduated from Hofstra Law and told me they received 2 offers out of 500 resumes sent - and they were small personal injury shops paying $35K, and another one that only wanted him to appear as a per diem (court appearances only). Yes, its bad out there for lawyers and its only going to get worse as law schools continue charging exorbitant tuition leaving many recent law grads jobless and up to $100-250K+ in non-dischargeable student loan debt. It is so bad that this guy was driven to suicide over it:
I am a volunteer alumni career contact for my undergrad and always tell students not to bother with a JD unless they get into a (1) top 5 law school, and (2) secure a big law firm job or federal clerkship immediately after graduation. Theres no guarantee of anything in law - as the 2008 crash resulted in massive layoffs at large firms like Skadden, Willkie Farr, Proskauer - and many of those 1st/2nd year associates with NO legal experience were told to take a hike. I believe higher education is the next bubble to burst. The only lawyers really "raking it in" (and by raking it in, I mean $160K+ salary) are solos with decades of experience, attorneys slaving for Skadden-type firms, or itinerant doc review attorneys working 80-100 hr/week shifts. Everyone else competes for the remaining scraps.
WOW! All that schooling, education costs, commute to NYS, all for $40-50k +/-
You have people with GED's making almost twice that with the LIRR, Civil Service jobs.
My friend is an accountant 3 years removed from college and now regrets going to school for it. Said it's the most boring job in the world, like watching paint dry.
8-9 hours of sitting at a desk and just crunching numbers all day.
The quintessential "cubicle" job.....
During tax season the days increase to 12 hours......8am to 8pm. It's no coincidence that since he graduated he gained about 20 pounds lol!!
It is boring as hell, especially when starting out. You need to acquire the hours necessary to sit for the CPA exam, usually while working as slave labor a accounting firm or consultancy. But once you're off, there are many options for a good accountant. Accounting provides you with an understanding of the mechanics of business and whether you go to finance or Wall St. or some other business, it provides a great background for success.
Some really good posts! After reading all of it the phrase "Time to evolve or perish" seems appropriate.
You have Attoneys posting that they make 40-50k +/-
Then on another tread(Upper Middle Class) you have this:
Poor/barely hanging on = <$125,000 per year
Lower middle class = $125,000 per year - $200,000 per year
Middle class = $200,000 - $400,000
Upper middle class = $400,000 - $600,000
Rich: over $600,000
That's a wide range!
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(and.. no, I did not graduate last in my class from a lower ranked law school like CUNY Queens, Touro or NYLS..) One of my friends' cousins just graduated from Hofstra Law and told me they received 2 offers out of 500 resumes sent - and they were small personal injury shops paying $35K, and another one that only wanted him to appear as a per diem (court appearances only).
Yes, its bad out there for lawyers and its only going to get worse as law schools continue charging exorbitant tuition leaving many recent law grads jobless and up to $100-250K+ in non-dischargeable student loan debt. It is so bad that this guy was driven to suicide over it:
