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Geo - do you normally carry with you a document proving you are a citizen? I have a passport but that stays locked up if I'm not travelling. What else is there?
How about a driver's license. It has a unique number that can be traced. There is also a NY State non-driver picture ID for non-drivers. How about a wallet sized version of a birth certificate, or any one of a million other possibilities for IDs to prove citizenship. If that is the main hurdle, your government should have no problem creating a new ID Card.
In my fantasy "reverse sanctuary" city, we would spend government money to assist with enforcement of existing laws, rather than on social, educational, or legal services for those who shouldn't be here in the first place. I know - radical idea !! But I can dream, can't I ?
With the exception of the birth certificate, nothing you mention proves citizenship and the problem with the birth certificate is that there is no relevant description. I don't want to live in a society where I must present my "papers, please" on demand.
Or do you really mean that only those with a certain appearance should have this requirement?
I don't care what anyone looks like - just have some way of showing citizenship. Plenty of people who "look" a certain way are legitimate american citizens. Too bad for them if they are mistaken for illegals - wouldn't it be better to have some way of showing that they are legal ?
This isn't even a legitimate argument. There are numerous ways to prove citizenship, and our governments can come up with a new way if necessary. That is what governments are supposed to do, not usher people across the border by the millions and provide them any service they want free of charge. Forms and cards have never been a problem for governments to require.
With the exception of the birth certificate, nothing you mention proves citizenship and the problem with the birth certificate is that there is no relevant description. I don't want to live in a society where I must present my "papers, please" on demand.
Or do you really mean that only those with a certain appearance should have this requirement?
Citizens don't need to prove citizenship. Legal permanent residents need to carry their green card with them at all times (this is the law, not that it's really followed). Anyone else needs to carry their passport with the appropriate authorization.
The problem, as you mention it, is the 'papers, please' issue. Perhaps there should be a law that makes falsely declaring oneself to be a citizen a felony. Police can ask yiur immigration status, and if you say citizen then they leave it at that.
I don't care what anyone looks like - just have some way of showing citizenship. Plenty of people who "look" a certain way are legitimate american citizens. Too bad for them if they are mistaken for illegals - wouldn't it be better to have some way of showing that they are legal ?
This isn't even a legitimate argument. There are numerous ways to prove citizenship, and our governments can come up with a new way if necessary. That is what governments are supposed to do, not usher people across the border by the millions and provide them any service they want free of charge. Forms and cards have never been a problem for governments to require.
Such a system already exists - it's called E-Verify. Basically no one uses it aside from the government because there's no legal mandate to do so. A wise immigration reform program would include harsh penalties for employers who don't use the system.
What does an illegal look like to you? Do you stop everyone?
No but those you do stop need to show proof of citizenship - but you knew that already. Like the guy who crashed a contractor's van into my wife's car a few years ago. He had no drivers license, and he said his name was "Juan Rodriguez". The next day, his name may have been "Angel Fernandez" - who knows with no ID.
If you happen to already know that a person is illegal, deport them, just like the law says you should. And sure it's expensive to do this, but that is an expense that government needs to commit to to enforce domestic laws.
We have people going hungry every day, all over the country and people still going without proper healthcare because they simply don't have the financial means to obtain it. But you're right, let's spend our tax dollars on tracking down and deporting people who are here illegally because that's money well spent.
We waste so much time, money and energy on trying to stop things that can't be and which inspire the majority of our criminal activities. If we legalized drugs and implemented achievable but rigid requirements for illegal immigrants to obtain citizenship it would be a huge improvement. Plus it would have a remarkably positive impact on tax revenue.
Imagine if law enforcement focused on true public safety issues instead of trying to chase down every potential illegal immigrate.
We have people going hungry every day, all over the country and people still going without proper healthcare because they simply don't have the financial means to obtain it. But you're right, let's spend our tax dollars on tracking down and deporting people who are here illegally because that's money well spent.
We waste so much time, money and energy on trying to stop things that can't be and which inspire the majority of our criminal activities. If we legalized drugs and implemented achievable but rigid requirements for illegal immigrants to obtain citizenship it would be a huge improvement. Plus it would have a remarkably positive impact on tax revenue.
Imagine if law enforcement focused on true public safety issues instead of trying to chase down every potential illegal immigrate.
You can't and there is no point in chasing down every single illegal immigrant. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't enforce the law, aggressively pursue criminal aliens (not just felons) and still make even non criminals fair game when encountered. Burglers are very rarely caught, so would we stop enforcing the burglary laws and wasting police resources? As for your complete amnesty pitch, what do you do with the next massive wave of illegals that will follow the first after amnesty is given? Give them citizenship or a path as well? When does it end? Should we just open our borders and tell the billions of poor and oppressed of the world to just walk on in with no immigration controls? As far as tax revenue go? The poor and the destitute would immediately go in the public dole becoming a tax burden, not a plus. These aren't MENSA candidates and business leaders crossing the border. Immigration IS a true public safety issue that's why immigration controls exists. Foriegn Aliens can bring crime, terrorism, disease, etc into the country which is why we (and virtually every other sovereign country) have immigration laws.
As a naturalized American who moved here legally with my family as a teenager from India, I'm really disgusted by our immigration policy. Illegals break the law by coming here & have multiple kids on the taxpayer's dime, get education on the taxpayer's dime, get benefits on the taxpayer's dime & yet our administration does nothing except allow more & more to come in & do the same. I'm trying to be compassionate here & not trying to target any particular race or ethnicity but this is absolutely not fair to the citizens of this country nor to folks like me who got in the line & waited years to become an American legally. When the law says that those who are here illegally need to be deported, well then we need to start doing just that, regardless of which country they come from. I apologize if I sound angry but that's because I am.
As a naturalized American who moved here legally with my family as a teenager from India, I'm really disgusted by our immigration policy. Illegals break the law by coming here & have multiple kids on the taxpayer's dime, get education on the taxpayer's dime, get benefits on the taxpayer's dime & yet our administration does nothing except allow more & more to come in & do the same. I'm trying to be compassionate here & not trying to target any particular race or ethnicity but this is absolutely not fair to the citizens of this country nor to folks like me who got in the line & waited years to become an American legally. When the law says that those who are here illegally need to be deported, well then we need to start doing just that, regardless of which country they come from. I apologize if I sound angry but that's because I am.
Your primary complaint is the economic burden caused by immigrants and your solution is to deport them all? Feasibility issues aside, what do you think deporting them will do for the economy?
First, the process of rounding up deporting the estimated 11M+ illegal immigrants would likely result in a direct, out-of-pocket cost over $216 billion. To put that in perspective, the federal government spent $265 billion on Medicaid in 2013.
Second, the Cato Institute estimates that the economic cost (excluding the aforementioned out-of-pocket cost) of deporting the entire illegal immigrant population would be a $250 billion reduction in annual growth.
Finally, according to a recent CBO report, while an increase in immigration (assuming significant reform) will grow federal spending, the total population will rise, meaning more workers and more taxpayers. This would ultimately result in a net reduction deficits by $900 billion ($1 trillion in estimated additional spending with $1.1 trillion in estimated additional tax revenue) over the next 20 years.
There are good arguments on both sides for and against immigration reform, but the fiscal wisdom of reform (e.g., legalization) compared to deportation is not really up for any type of real debate.
You can prove anything with numbers and statistics depending on how you parse data, what you leave out and what result you would like. Cato, for example, is all for very cheap labor costs by the international movement of jobs or people to produce maximum profit regardless of impacts to societies. Both parties have wings that love the current system. Lets just look at reality. It costs 18-24 thousand to educate a single child per year - add thousands more for ELA or special needs. Lets not even begin to discuss welfare (in many states where applicable, or guaranteed in an instance of a child being born by illegal migrants in the US) and emergency room costs which can be thousands to infinite. Then let's not forget the tax revenue lost to the under the table cash economy and the depressive impact that has on wages. If you look at the issue purely on economics instead of through racial blinders, the laws clearly need to be enforced. The taxes brought by low skilled migrants (from any place) can never equal the money taken from the taxpayer and treasury for generations to come. A quick google search can give you those studies as well if you need that over your common sense.
Every other country that allows inflow migration has a point based system to bring in people necessary to grow the economy, never an open door for obvious reasons as in a modern welfare state you impact your own citizens directly. Enforcement should be done at the business level (with hefty fines which make paying people illegally clearly not profitable or worth the risk) as well when even minor crimes are committed at the individual level -deportation at that point should be swift with no recourse - no court dates, etc. You have already made the personal choice to break federal law. The costs would be minimal as there would be no incentive to stay or come illegally at that point if a living cannot be made, the legal path would be the only real option. It wouldn't be 100% effective of course, but would put a big dent in the problem and send a signal overseas. BTW, I am also a legal immigrant (and it is indeed a long but worth while process) who has witnessed what has happened not only in many of the trades of my good friends as a result of our current system, but also in the tech industry where I work.
Your primary complaint is the economic burden caused by immigrants and your solution is to deport them all? Feasibility issues aside, what do you think deporting them will do for the economy?
First, the process of rounding up deporting the estimated 11M+ illegal immigrants would likely result in a direct, out-of-pocket cost over $216 billion. To put that in perspective, the federal government spent $265 billion on Medicaid in 2013.
Second, the Cato Institute estimates that the economic cost (excluding the aforementioned out-of-pocket cost) of deporting the entire illegal immigrant population would be a $250 billion reduction in annual growth.
Finally, according to a recent CBO report, while an increase in immigration (assuming significant reform) will grow federal spending, the total population will rise, meaning more workers and more taxpayers. This would ultimately result in a net reduction deficits by $900 billion ($1 trillion in estimated additional spending with $1.1 trillion in estimated additional tax revenue) over the next 20 years.
There are good arguments on both sides for and against immigration reform, but the fiscal wisdom of reform (e.g., legalization) compared to deportation is not really up for any type of real debate.
Who is actually saying deport all 11 million illegalls (probably really close to 30 million)?? Anyone with a brain knows that would be logistically and financially impossible. But that doesn't mean we should reward those here with citizenship, nor does it mean we should completely stop all interior enforcement. It doesn't have to be deport everyone or deport no one, there are a ton of solutions that are well in between.
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