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I have a Carrier that was installed in 1999 & still works great (12 SEER) . I get it tuned up every year before the cooling season & every year the tech tells me to start thinking about installing a new system.
I have the air handler in the attic & envision nightmare to dismantle the old & install the new.
Is Carrier still considered the Gold Standard in CAC? How long does removal of entire old system & installation of new one usually take?
Do the copper pipes from the compressor to the air handler have to be replaced or can the old ones be reused?
It's just a one day job to do a swap out. I had an amana from 2000 that went belly up on my in 2014 (condenser coils went). Replaced with a Rheem. Yes Carrier is considered a good brand.
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"Let this year be over..."
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Location: Where my bills arrive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crv1010
I have a Carrier that was installed in 1999 & still works great (12 SEER) . I get it tuned up every year before the cooling season & every year the tech tells me to start thinking about installing a new system.
I have the air handler in the attic & envision nightmare to dismantle the old & install the new.
Is Carrier still considered the Gold Standard in CAC? How long does removal of entire old system & installation of new one usually take?
Do the copper pipes from the compressor to the air handler have to be replaced or can the old ones be reused?
Carrier is still a well respected choice, I have a Carrier Heat Pump upstairs and a Bryant Gas Furnace/A/C down, Bryant/Carrier is the same company. If you research the brands most have a high/mid/budget line which all seem similar but each level builds upon the previous one. Installation should be completed in a day, the line set (copper pipes) should be replaced as part of the process because the diameters needed have changed. Other brands that are popular here are Rheem, American Standard and even Goodman which is considered builders grade but like each brand they have multiple grades.
New units don't last as long as old units by design, water heaters are even worse because they are rated in guaranteed years, and they are designed to fail a few days/weeks after the guarantee expires. EG. You will pay less for 6 years of life and more for 10 years of water heater life! In the good old days an electric water heater would last for the life of the house! and you would just replace heating elements over time. Many of these old tanks were removed not because they failed but because they were insulated with asbestos. You would think however that stainless steel is a thing of the past. A stainless tank might cost $1000 but so what!
I have a unit in a HOA built in 2006. We are near salt water (which is hard on coils). Most of the units have already replaced compressor units. That tells me that my compressor is operating 1 year beyond its design life based on all the units in the same community that have been replaced
Carrier is still a well respected choice, I have a Carrier Heat Pump upstairs and a Bryant Gas Furnace/A/C down, Bryant/Carrier is the same company. If you research the brands most have a high/mid/budget line which all seem similar but each level builds upon the previous one. Installation should be completed in a day, the line set (copper pipes) should be replaced as part of the process because the diameters needed have changed. Other brands that are popular here are Rheem, American Standard and even Goodman which is considered builders grade but like each brand they have multiple grades.
I always found the whole brand/ twin brand thing strange in the HVAC industry
Carrier/Bryant
Rheem/Ruud
Amana/Goodman
Trane/American standard
A lot of the units share many of the same exact parts between sub brands with a few differences.
I always found the whole brand/ twin brand thing strange in the HVAC industry
Carrier/Bryant
Rheem/Ruud
Amana/Goodman
Trane/American standard
A lot of the units share many of the same exact parts between sub brands with a few differences.
These paired "brands" are made in the same factory and are most likely owned by the same company. There are different brands for different budgets with the units being very much the same.
Same thing with refrigerators (and major appliances); different "brands" have the same frame and are made in the same factory; you can smoke out like units by looking at screw hold locations. Cosmetics (such as draw location and skinning) and price are the only difference in many cases.
If you buy a $700 refrigerator you may find that it has the exact same compressor that a $2500 refrigerator has. They "seal" the compressor so you cannot replace cheap parts such as motor mounts; therefore you are forced to replace the refrigerator rather than repair it.
ROI on SEER
The price of energy efficient appliances are so inflated you might be better off getting the least efficient unit you can. In Fla, At 10c kwh you might have a $1000 yearly benefit per operating year between the best and worst efficiencies. In NY, at 24c kwh you only have a a few months where you use the unit; you might only find that you have a $400 difference between most and least efficient units.
Personally, I would install the least costly unit I could.
I would "invest" in a good control unit such as a Tekmar controller.
These paired "brands" are made in the same factory and are most likely owned by the same company. There are different brands for different budgets with the units being very much the same.
Same thing with refrigerators (and major appliances); different "brands" have the same frame and are made in the same factory; you can smoke out like units by looking at screw hold locations. Cosmetics (such as draw location and skinning) and price are the only difference in many cases.
If you buy a $700 refrigerator you may find that it has the exact same compressor that a $2500 refrigerator has. They "seal" the compressor so you cannot replace cheap parts such as motor mounts; therefore you are forced to replace the refrigerator rather than repair it.
ROI on SEER
The price of energy efficient appliances are so inflated you might be better off getting the least efficient unit you can. In Fla, At 10c kwh you might have a $1000 yearly benefit per operating year between the best and worst efficiencies. In NY, at 24c kwh you only have a a few months where you use the unit; you might only find that you have a $400 difference between most and least efficient units.
Personally, I would install the least costly unit I could.
I would "invest" in a good control unit such as a Tekmar controller.
I've actually read the same thing. Getting a high SEER unit up here dosent justify the cost, you only really save decent money in areas where the unit is running all year long like FL/AZ etc.
I've actually read the same thing. Getting a high SEER unit up here dosent justify the cost, you only really save decent money in areas where the unit is running all year long like FL/AZ etc.
This is the exact reason my 1992 Trane is still around it's a 13 seer a new 17 seer wouldn't save me much cost on my energy. A new unit installed would be 4k easily and that's not counting the air handler in my attic. Heating is the same my current 1982 gas boiler is around 70% efficient but is would cost me $4500 to get a new unit that's 85% and the ROI including gas prices going up etc is still 15-18yrs. My house is odd completely renovated new plumbing when I did kitchen and baths, all LED and energy efficient appliances during re model. But my HVAC is ancient.
I've actually read the same thing. Getting a high SEER unit up here dosent justify the cost, you only really save decent money in areas where the unit is running all year long like FL/AZ etc.
Does not pay in FL either, because the cost per KWH is less than 1/2 what it is here (mostly due to corruption in NYS and a more responsible financial philosophy in FLA (Red State philosophy, thou shall not subsidize your neighbor via tax payer boondoggles).
FL has scant little solar as well; the state of FLA is less corrupt thus does not subsidize the solar panel boondoggle through tax credits (does not have a state income tax) nor do they cost shift the outsized costs of solar to regular customers, nor do they stress out the grid by installing lots of non-base load systems. The base load systems they have are very very low cost and efficient. However, FLA avoided a potential nuclear problem in the last hurricane that was slated to hit a nuclear complex head on! FPL built a bunch of nuclear plants on a key, sand bar! The nuclear power stations were installed using 1970 estimates of peak sea level. You don't here about that lucky break in the news.
The cost of R-22 has skyrocketed in the last couple of years as supply has dwindled, and it is only going to get higher. There are refrigerants that can replace it in a system, such as MO99 and R-407c, but that can be expensive as well and the risk of failure is higher in an older system.
R-410a is a blend that has been the go-to in A/C applications for years now, and it is a solid choice. It uses a different type of oil than R-22 and runs at a much higher pressure, so putting it into an existing R-22 system isn't going to work. The incompatibility of the oil is why the refrigerant lines need to be replaced. It isn't any more "finicky" than R-22; both react badly to moisture. Installers have just gotten used to taking short cuts with R-22 that they can't get away with with R-410a. If they follow the industry and manufacturer standards in installation, evacuation, and charging, there won't be any problems.
When it comes to replacing or repairing, it's a judgement call. It's harder to find replacement parts for older systems, and they do cost more to repair (finding a replacement coil for a 15 year old system will be next to impossible). If your unit is 10-15 years old, it might be more cost effective to repair it for the time being; if it's older than that, it might be time to replace it. My suggestion would be to find a contractor you trust and ask them about the pros and cons of both options.
How long it takes is going to depend on the system and the contractor. If you're replacing a R-22 system for a R-410a system, both the evaporator and the condenser must be changed. Are the units easy to get to? Are the line sets exposed? Does the duct work match the cfm of the new unit or does it need to be replaced? All will effect the price and time.
Last edited by JB from NC; 05-20-2017 at 07:58 PM..
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