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You're all taking it out on the wrong people. The problem is not teachers making that amount, but this extreme capitalism which makes it really hard for any professional to make that much, while the rich make exponentially more thanks to lobbying, which is no less than legal corruption. Common people like you and me, we have no real representation, and the rules are being made by the rich who can afford lobbying firms.
Without commenting on the accuracy of the rest of your post, Tier 3 NYSTRS retirement benefits are LESS generous than Tier 4 - so the vast majority (essentially all) of Tier 3 folks retire under the rules of Tier 4.
"If you are a Tier 3 member, you may retire under either Tier 3 or 4. You automatically receive the better benefit, which is usually Tier 4 because....https://www.nystrs.org/Benefits/Service-Retirement
(Without getting into the weeds, Tiers 3 and 4 were significant cost-cutters in part because of the change in % each year over 30...This was 1976 - 44 years ago.
It is also true that Tiers 5 [2010] and 6 [2012], especially 6, represent significant changes in pension eligibility and cost.)
Thanks, I had noted this in the table but wasn't sure of its relevance:
"*Tier 3 members are eligible for benefits under Tier 3 or 4, whichever provides the better benefit."
The biggest issue tier 6 will see has not happened yet. Normally a teacher would leave at 55-58 there high salary would be gone and a new cheap teacher is hired. In tier 6 most likely all teachers are staying until 63 just to ride out the time. Now schools are going to have way more teachers with top end salaries for 4-8 years longer than the new cheaper teachers, no doubt this is going to cost districts tons of $$.
That's a fair point. But considering the eligibility date changed, if someone retires in a lower tier at 55 they get their pension then, and statistically will live for 30+ more years. Later teachers will get a payout of 8 years less.
I'm also curious how many teachers as a % make it to 63. Probably a lot less than would make it to 55 and get their full pension.
This will all be moot at some point as they introduce Tier 7.
You're all taking it out on the wrong people. The problem is not teachers making that amount, but this extreme capitalism which makes it really hard for any professional to make that much, while the rich make exponentially more thanks to lobbying, which is no less than legal corruption. Common people like you and me, we have no real representation, and the rules are being made by the rich who can afford lobbying firms.
What are you on? I'll put it as simply as I can for you. Am I paying $1k per month toward these billionaires or companies? N O.
But MANY here (not just me) certainly are paying $1k per month into school taxes which is for teacher compensation.
So explain to me how I'm taking it out on the wrong people if my money is going toward one and not the other. Secondly, any amount I spend other than taxes (ie. to capitalists as you pointed out) are voluntary. My choice. Teacher compensation, not at all my choice, at least not the insane amounts that we pay. If you're so eager to hate the "rich", why aren't you hating on $130k gym teachers - that's what I want to know. That's not enough money for them or the multitude of other teachers not pulling their weight in this broken system that we all contribute to?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocafeller05
The salaries are not the burden. It’s the pension of 75-80% highest salary, for life and the healthcare for life.
How do you figure? In the budgets I pulled, $61M was salary, and then an additional $10M was for retirement benefits. Another $23M for health insurance. BTW, this is for approximately 525 K-12 teachers in a given district, an avg cost to us of $180k per teacher. What are you looking at, what am I missing, or are you guessing?
And while I'm at it, I'd like to discuss why pensions are even still offered when even many for-profit companies don't any longer. I save for my retirement on my own - many people do and don't make as much as $130k a year. Why do they also need a pension? Let's just give them everything at our expense...
If it wasn't at our expense, I couldn't care less what their benefits are. Live and let live only applies when they don't impose on us.
What are you on? I'll put it as simply as I can for you. Am I paying $1k per month toward these billionaires or companies? N O.
But MANY here (not just me) certainly are paying $1k per month into school taxes which is for teacher compensation.
So explain to me how I'm taking it out on the wrong people if my money is going toward one and not the other. Secondly, any amount I spend other than taxes (ie. to capitalists as you pointed out) are voluntary. My choice. Teacher compensation, not at all my choice, at least not the insane amounts that we pay. If you're so eager to hate the "rich", why aren't you hating on $130k gym teachers - that's what I want to know. That's not enough money for them or the multitude of other teachers not pulling their weight in this broken system that we all contribute to?
How do you figure? In the budgets I pulled, $61M was salary, and then an additional $10M was for retirement benefits. Another $23M for health insurance. BTW, this is for approximately 525 K-12 teachers in a given district, an avg cost to us of $180k per teacher. What are you looking at, what am I missing, or are you guessing?
You're looking at the micro economics. Big companies that pay no taxes, like Amazon for example, are forcing us to pay more taxes to compensate. Those companies are benefitting, however, from the education that you are paying. They also benefit from the roads and the overall peace and order that you are paying for. At the same time they kept salaries as low as possible for decades. All through lobbying that you an I cannot afford to pay.
So in short, yes, you ARE paying towards these billionairs.
Secondly, if it's such an easy job, why aren't you doing it? Just do it.
Me personally, I don't like those jobs.
And while I'm at it, I'd like to discuss why pensions are even still offered when even many for-profit companies don't any longer. I save for my retirement on my own - many people do and don't make as much as $130k a year. Why do they also need a pension? Let's just give them everything at our expense...
If it wasn't at our expense, I couldn't care less what their benefits are. Live and let live only applies when they don't impose on us.
Because it’s a pyramid scheme. They need the current teachers putting into the system to the pay the retirees. If they scrap the system then it collapses and the state and all it’s taxpayers get to fund the Pensions. It’s way cheaper to keep the system as it is.
You're looking at the micro economics. Big companies that pay no taxes, like Amazon for example, are forcing us to pay more taxes to compensate. Those companies are benefitting, however, from the education that you are paying. They also benefit from the roads and the overall peace and order that you are paying for. At the same time they kept salaries as low as possible for decades. All through lobbying that you an I cannot afford to pay.
So in short, yes, you ARE paying towards these billionairs.
Secondly, if it's such an easy job, why aren't you doing it? Just do it.
Me personally, I don't like those jobs.
I'm amazed that I can pay so many federal taxes and state taxes, and then general & school taxes... and none of that goes toward these billionaires. They may take advantage but I'm not paying into them. You somehow squeeze some random far-fetched thoughts into why I should hate them.
It's not about making as much money as whomever - I'm just fine. It's about why I'm literally paying into these local school taxes to the degree that I do. It is so far above what I'm paying billionaires or their companies. Not to mention they are already placed at a higher tax bracket and responsible for more to begin with. Affordability is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. You're just deflecting, like many teachers/unions' apologists do.
Because it’s a pyramid scheme. They need the current teachers putting into the system to the pay the retirees. If they scrap the system then it collapses and the state and all it’s taxpayers get to fund the Pensions. It’s way cheaper to keep the system as it is.
Doesn't explain why it can't be phased out over time. And I'm not sure why you specify only current teachers putting into the system. How much are they putting in compared to the amount taxpayers are responsible for? Let them pay for it amongst themselves if they're so gung-ho about it.
I tell my kids often not to return to this place when they're done with school. I don't understand how living among a sea of thieves doesn't anger people. Many participate, while others think they make too much to care... a match made in heaven except this place looks & feels nothing like heaven.
And while I'm at it, I'd like to discuss why pensions are even still offered when even many for-profit companies don't any longer. I save for my retirement on my own - many people do and don't make as much as $130k a year. Why do they also need a pension? Let's just give them everything at our expense...
If it wasn't at our expense, I couldn't care less what their benefits are. Live and let live only applies when they don't impose on us.
This is the heart of the matter. The generous pension and benefits were supposed to make up for low teacher salaries. Everyone forgets that. Now teachers are making bank and getting Cadillac benefits too.
As far as the cost of those benefits they were also calculated using old actuarial tables with a different life expectancy. My dad gets a private sector pension and he’s ten years past the age they calculated when they set the pension rates. He’s not the only one - people are routinely living into their 80s and even 90s now. And the boomer teachers are not done retiring - youngest boomers are 55.
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