Can we attract the same caliber of Police applicants for less money? (Hempstead: apartment, big house)
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NYC and Long Island don't recruit in a vacuum. They're drawing from the same pool of applicants. The reason NYC can't fill its recruit classes is that the pay, benefits and working conditions aren't good. The reason that Nassau and Suffolk can attract 30,000 people for a test that may result in 300 being hired is that it is a more attractive job environment on a number of levels. It has nothing to do with the numbers of people each department needs.
Also, don't assume that there's less risk here. There are parts of the Island in which crime rates exceed those in NYC. The police job is risky everywhere and it's not just about crime. It's not like you watch on television.
The NCPD and SCPD needs LESS police officers than the NYPD. Because they need LESS police officers, they don't have to go to the bottom of the barrell like the NYPD may have to. To use a simplified example:
There are 1,000 applicants for police jobs
The NYPD needs to fill 600 spots
The NCPD/SCPD combine need to fill 100 spots
If the 2 jobs are equally as attractive, that means for every 1 applicants that goes to the NYPD another goes to NCPD/SCPD. Are you following the math? That means that the NYPD get 100 of the top 200 candidates and the NCPD/SCPD gets 100 of the top 200 candidates. The NCPD/SCPD is not fully staffed, but the NYPC has 500 remaining spots it needs to fill. It needs to sink deeper into the applicant pool. It is all about the numbers.
And on a whole, LI is significantly less risky than NYC. You even said in a previous post that the crime rate in Nassau and Suffolk is the lowest in the nation for a suburb of this size. So which is it? Lowest crime rate in the nation, or more risky than NYC? Yes there are parts of LI that are rough, but they are small patches and are few and far between. No one is buying the argument that LI is just as risky as NYC.
NYC and Long Island don't recruit in a vacuum. They're drawing from the same pool of applicants. The reason NYC can't fill its recruit classes is that the pay, benefits and working conditions aren't good. The reason that Nassau and Suffolk can attract 30,000 people for a test that may result in 300 being hired is that it is a more attractive job environment on a number of levels. It has nothing to do with the numbers of people each department needs.
Also, don't assume that there's less risk here. There are parts of the Island in which crime rates exceed those in NYC. The police job is risky everywhere and it's not just about crime. It's not like you watch on television.
There are probably 2 areas in which the crime rate and risk even approach those of the bad parts of NYC. So you have the projects in Hempstead...not great from what I've heard, but anything compared to working in the 75 in Brooklyn? Please.
There are probably 2 areas in which the crime rate and risk even approach those of the bad parts of NYC. So you have the projects in Hempstead...not great from what I've heard, but anything compared to working in the 75 in Brooklyn? Please.
Hempstead has their own village police, the NCPD doesn't even patrol the worst neighborhoods in Nassau County!
[quote=I have a voice;4926581]
If the 2 jobs are equally as attractive, that means for every 1 applicants that goes to the NYPD another goes to NCPD/SCPD. Are you following the math? That means that the NYPD get 100 of the top 200 candidates and the NCPD/SCPD gets 100 of the top 200 candidates. The NCPD/SCPD is not fully staffed, but the NYPC has 500 remaining spots it needs to fill. It needs to sink deeper into the applicant pool. It is all about the numbers.
quote]Oops... The 4th sentence should say "the NCPD/SCPD is NOW fully staffed, but the NYPD has 500 remaining spots it needs to fill".
The basic premise (which is apparently difficult for some people to comprehend) is that if you have 2 entities of different sizes for which the same demand exists, the smaller entity can be more choosey because it has less of a supply of open positions. The cop on this page says the numbers have nothing to do with it, but unfortunately the numbers have everything to do with it. It's simple supply/demand economics. Maybe this is why we should require our police officers to have more than a few credits from the local community college.
If the 2 jobs are equally as attractive, that means for every 1 applicants that goes to the NYPD another goes to NCPD/SCPD. Are you following the math? That means that the NYPD get 100 of the top 200 candidates and the NCPD/SCPD gets 100 of the top 200 candidates. The NCPD/SCPD is not fully staffed, but the NYPC has 500 remaining spots it needs to fill. It needs to sink deeper into the applicant pool. It is all about the numbers.
quote]Oops... The 4th sentence should say "the NCPD/SCPD is NOW fully staffed, but the NYPD has 500 remaining spots it needs to fill".
The basic premise (which is apparently difficult for some people to comprehend) is that if you have 2 entities of different sizes for which the same demand exists, the smaller entity can be more choosey because it has less of a supply of open positions. The cop on this page says the numbers have nothing to do with it, but unfortunately the numbers have everything to do with it. It's simple supply/demand economics. Maybe this is why we should require our police officers to have more than a few credits from the local community college.
If the smaller entity has strict requirements as opposed the larger, it's not so much a matter of being choosey, but of trying to weed out unqualified applicants prior to the hiring process. It saves them time and is more cost efficient than entertaining an application from someone who stands no chance.
More applicants are going to try for the better paying job, increasing the pool of applicants available to them. Hopefully that yields the NCPD or SCPD the best of the group. Those who know that they don't have any of the prerequisite requirements can opt for the NYPD (where they know they stand a chance) or to look into a different career path.
If the smaller entity has strict requirements as opposed the larger, it's not so much a matter of being choosey, but of trying to weed out unqualified applicants prior to the hiring process. It saves them time and is more cost efficient than entertaining an application from someone who stands no chance.
More applicants are going to try for the better paying job, increasing the pool of applicants available to them. Hopefully that yields the NCPD or SCPD the best of the group. Those who know that they don't have any of the prerequisite requirements can opt for the NYPD (where they know they stand a chance) or to look into a different career path.
The point is that a smaller entity doesn't have to hire as many cops and therefore can keep high standards because they have a greater demand for positions than supply of positions. Given this fact, and the fact that the work environment on LI is far superior to that of working in most NYC neighborhoods, it's safe to say that a 30% drop in police compensation would not affect recruitment and retention at all, because even at a 30% drop in total compensation the NCPD and SCPD are still paid superior to the NYPD.
I understand what you are saying, supply and demand. But if you are to reduce total compensation and expect someone to live here on a PO's salary the pool of recruits will drop off as they seek employment elsewhere.
The late Clamboy had written something which rings true -- as things go up, the middle class will disappear from LI, leaving only the poor and the wealthy. Nurses, police, teachers, garbagemen, etc. will be amongst those we lose.
I understand what you are saying, supply and demand. But if you are to reduce total compensation and expect someone to live here on a PO's salary the pool of recruits will drop off as they seek employment elsewhere.
The late Clamboy had written something which rings true -- as things go up, the middle class will disappear from LI, leaving only the poor and the wealthy. Nurses, police, teachers, garbagemen, etc. will be amongst those we lose.
To compare guys pulling 120K per year after 7 years with 50% of salary for doing nothing after 20 years to the other people on your list is ridiculous. Cops are pulling what Finance professionals in NYC are who take the train in every day. Let's be serious here.
I don't want to see Suffolk cops living in basement apartments like NYC cops are, but to be make making that kinda loot without a college degree is absurd and EVERYONE knows it. I do know teachers who spend the first few years of their careers in basement apartments, so..it's really not that bad of a thing for awhile. Should a cop and a teacher who are married be able to afford a Median house on Long Island? Without question, that should be the criteria for salary. Should they be able to afford $600k Mcmansions after 7 years? I'm not so sure.
I understand what you are saying, supply and demand. But if you are to reduce total compensation and expect someone to live here on a PO's salary the pool of recruits will drop off as they seek employment elsewhere.
If we reduce total compensation they are still making significantly more money than they would make in our neighboring police department, the NYPD. In addition, there's still the added incentive to work in the safest suburb in the US versus the world's capital. No one is suggesting paying our cops less than the NYPD, but they should have a total compensation that's in line with the consituency they serve. Some may decide to work in the private sector as becoming a cop won't be akin to "winning the lottery" anymore, but I' wager to say most will not given they don't have to spend tens of thousands of dollars on college degrees in order to become a cop.
To compare guys pulling 120K per year after 7 years with 50% of salary for doing nothing after 20 years to the other people on your list is ridiculous. Cops are pulling what Finance professionals in NYC are who take the train in every day. Let's be serious here.
I don't want to see Suffolk cops living in basement apartments like NYC cops are, but to be make making that kinda loot without a college degree is absurd and EVERYONE knows it. I do know teachers who spend the first few years of their careers in basement apartments, so..it's really not that bad of a thing for awhile. Should a cop and a teacher who are married be able to afford a Median house on Long Island? Without question, that should be the criteria for salary. Should they be able to afford $600k Mcmansions after 7 years? I'm not so sure.
No one should be living in basement apartments, but the lack of affordable housing and rapidly escalating taxes force them to.
But to adjust the salaries solely based upon the cost of a house and potential homeownership? What if you have a cop who is a confirmed bachelor? Should he make more than a cop who is married to a woman who also employed? After all, the single man does not have the benefit of the 2nd income that the married man does.
If a PO or a teacher can afford a $600K McMansion, do we begrudge them? While I can only speak for myself, my hubby's paycheck is not our only source of income. I camethisclose to buying an $850K fixer upper a few years back -- we aren't white collar, and I am credits shy of my degree. Would you begrudge me that as I am not a degreed professional?
Salaries for all professions should be based upon the value of the service they provide, the education needed, the risk involved and the profession's level of necessity within the society. A roofer shouldn't be making as much as a cardiac surgeon, but more than the gardener as there is more risk involved being up on the roof.
Seeing as the teacher is the one responsible for teaching everyone, should we make them the top of the pay heap -- above police officers, nurses, doctors, engineers, presidents, astrophysicists and college deans?
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