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We are planning on putting our house up for sale in the town of brookhaven. We currently do not have a Permit/CO for an inground pool that was put in 3 years ago. The pool was put in with town code in mind (fence, ft from edge of property, etc.)
a. Do we absolutely need a permit prior to selling?
b. what is the cost of obtaining the permit and related penalties for not acquiring prior to putting in the pool?
(a) In MOST cases you will definitely need to have the CO in place. I say "most" because there's always the (slim) possibility that you'll end up with an all-cash buyer who, like you, would rather not pay the higher taxes that will result from the pool being CO'd. I was exactly such a buyer for my last house. It didn't have a pool but it did not have a CO for the very large deck and the hot tub that was on it. I told my lawyer I didn't care about the no-COs and so did not ask for any. But before I put the house on the market, I removed the deck and sold the hot tub.
If you have the usual buyer (who is getting a mortgage) their lawyer will require in the contract that all COs be in place. If it was something minor like a hot tub or a deck, you could probably get away with saying the hot tub is a "gift" and the contract specifies that "seller is not required to supply a CO for the deck" But an inground pool is more of a biggie. Their bank, especially these days with credit so tight, may well require as a condition of the mortgage that all COs be in place and of course if their appraisal shows an inground pool they are going to want you to furnish the proper CO for it.
(b) The cost and procedure varies by Town. The permit fee structure is usually a little higher for "built prior" than for "proposed".
Since we are still house hunting I happen to have the permit schedules for Town of Islip and Town of Smithtown, just FYI:
ISLIP:
All permits require a $200 nonrefundable filing fee.
Inground Pool: $250
They do not show a fee for built-prior but I'm not sure whether their "Addition and/or Alteration" applies also to pools as well as to the structure. If it does, then a Certificate of Compliance is $400 plus 70 cents per square foot. Square footage does apply to pools for tax purposes but I don't know if it does for permit purposes.
SMITHTOWN:
Assessment Fee $50
Certificate of Compliance Fee $50
Inground Pool $250 minimum fee
Built-Prior Fee: 3x whatever the basic inground pool permit fee turns out to be. Therefore the minimum built-prior fee would be $750
If the pool is heated there is a $100 fee per heating unit; if it's a gas heater, there is an addl $100 gas-testing fee.
I don't know about the other towns but I would assume their fees fall somewhere near or between these two.
You definately should get started on the process of obtaining the co. Chances are that the buyer will require it. Why take the chance of holding up your closing?
you dont need a permit. the new home owner will simply deduct the costs of getting a permit from the final price of the home.
I just did it with my house. never had a permit for a rear patio deck and the home owner deducted the cost from the final price.
Why are you assuming that any given buyer "will" be willing to do that? Just because your buyer did, does not mean others will.
And again what happens if the buyer is willing to do it but their bank insists on the CO being in place before either issuing the commitment or no later than closing?
With so many people claiming that it's "a buyer's market", one would think that a seller would not be willing to risk losing a solid buyer just because they ASSumed all buyers would be okay with taking a price reduction of X dollars and/or that the buyer's bank "won't care".
you dont need a permit. the new home owner will simply deduct the costs of getting a permit from the final price of the home.
I just did it with my house. never had a permit for a rear patio deck and the home owner deducted the cost from the final price.
I totally agree with Tom - start on the permit and CO right away. As was also mentioned, lenders are much more strict with regard to COs and you could end up having a canceled contract. The buyers' attorney will also insist on all COs
Besides, there's a difference between a deck and an inground pool. Not to mention that it would be misrepresentation of the RE taxes, which increase with a pool.
I'm in the pool business. I've also sold a house that I got hit with a surprise "open permit" just before we went to closing. It is a pain in the buttochs.
If you do not get the CO, money will be held in escrow until everything is complete,
a lot of money. It could end up costing you more post sale than if you do it now, plus it will be a headache you just don't feel like dealing with because you no longer own the home. Take care of it now. Do it right.
I'm not sure about town by town, because it varies, but you may have to bring the pool and anything related up to today's code. Pool and door alarms, minimum setbacks for the pool itself and any equipment. Safety fence and gate alarms depending on how or where the pool or any existing fencing is located.
It could turn out to be a nightmare, and you will NOT want to deal with this later on when you are in contract or closing.
You need certificates for the electric and plumbing, if you have gas for a heater.
In todays market you want everything to go smoothly, and you don't want anything to discourage a potential buyer. No permits for a pool will scare the pants off possible buyers.
No matter how badly a buyer wants a house, open Co's are not the buyers call. It is up to the bank and to the attorney, who is working in the buyers best interest and will most certainly want COs in place. Banks usually will not close on a deal that has open permits and no COs. Even a cash deal may go bad with open permits, depends on the attorney- the survey will show no pool and it WILL come up in discussion.
Even a cash deal may go bad with open permits, depends on the attorney- the survey will show no pool and it WILL come up in discussion.
An inground pool definitely falls into the category of "major non-CO problem" (along with non-CO'd additions to a house's square footage). It's just not in the same category as the smaller, relatively common non-CO'd items such as sheds, hot tubs, fences and decks.
Of course a buyer does have the final say over his/her attorney's advice (however good it is) but when it comes to the bank, the CO situation is taken out of the buyer's control completely.
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