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Teachers are overpaid. They only work 9 months of the year then they should be paid for 9 months, NOT 12.
They are paid for 9 months. They're hired to teach .....the dates which they are hired to teach. The don't then teach 3 months less than the dates they are hired to teach.
I don't believe my plan would cause teachers to flee. But, if it did, I'm prepared to dip into the talent pool of teachers waiting and begging to get into the LI system.
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We'll see how deep the talent pool is and how many people would be "begging" if you start cutting compensation significantly. The private school teacher making 40K on Long island applying for a job where they would be making 60K after 6 or 7 years in a public school (after your cuts)..that same person can move to Raleigh Durham and make 50K..and buy a house for half the price...why would they stick around if they had any mobility?
I'm not in any way saying that isn't exactly what is happening in private industry..it is and it's bad..but to just flippantly say "cutting salary (significantly) won't make a difference in the talent pool"...there's not a lot of logic there.
no thanks, I'm staying in NC. Meanwhile, all these ex-teachers from LI are moving here to make 55K.
That's provided NC keeps the salaries at 55K and doesn't lower/freeze them. Often in industries, it is "monkey see monkey do" when it comes to layoffs and cutting compensation. If their peers get away with it, they think they can too.
Right, a percentile is determined by taking X number of salaries and finding the midpoint of those salaries on a scale. The mean is the average. That changes the validity of the numbers in what way?
Again, here is your statement regarding percentiles: "The percentiles are an average for all teachers in that area..x number of teachers times x combined salaries/x number of teachers."
Percentiles are not an average and there's no multiplying or dividing involved. You are wrong and you don't understand percentiles (or now maybe you do thanks to me). Because of this, you completely missed the point. Now you refuse you admit you are wrong - it's comical watching you try to weasel away from your statement I have in bold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72
If you don't have an argument, why do you keep arguing and trying to find holes in data? Just because? You brought up the issue of years experience just because you were curious, or because you want the #'s to be wrong?
Yes, I was curious. It would have an affect on the point you are desperately trying to make.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72
What would you describe the posts of people who keep repeating fallacies about teachers compensation, and continue to repeat them despite clear evidence to the contrary? A tirade? A lie?
Sure, why not. But I simply posted something that I was curious about and look what it has turned into. It looks like someone is on a mission!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72
And you top it all off with an ad hominem..I prove your points wrong, so I must be angry and attacking you.
Sorry sparky, the only thing you proved is that you need a stats 101 refresher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72
When you find any evidence to the fact that teachers in NC have more experience than those on LI, and that creates some significant difference in the salaries above and beyond what the pay scale actually is..come on back. You made that very shaky point, and it's obvious that you intended to cast doubt on the data from the salary website by bringing it up.
Actually that was my question. I didn't make any point, just asked a question. You made a point without considering all factors. Next time you want to make a blanket statement try to consider other facts, otherwise you are being... intellectually dishonest.
That's provided NC keeps the salaries at 55K and doesn't lower/freeze them. Often in industries, it is "monkey see monkey do" when it comes to layoffs and cutting compensation. If their peers get away with it, they think they can too.
I'm not sure an area seeing growth like the triangle in NC will be cutting salaries..maybe freeze them. Regardless, I've done all the calculations myself. I have very specific numbers budgeted for all different scenarios. I can tell you that a 20% decrease in my wifes salary would lead us to seriously consider leaving LI. We know what she can get paid in other areas (at least 6 other areas), we've seen the houses, we know the lifestyle and the jobs are there for teachers. So, go ahead and cut the salaries. I'd probably end up happier and living an easier life elsewhere anyway. I'm tired of being tailgated by LI jerks.
The numbers used to define the percentiles? What are you talking about? Again, a percentile is only a list of salaries for each location and picking the salary that is 3/4's up the list.
News flash: I am not making an argument! Check my orginal post sparky, I only said it would be interesting to see the # of teaching years for the 75th percentile - that's all. I don't expect teachers in NC to have significantly more experience, but my experience with data analysis tells me that "you never know". You then confused what I meant and interpretted it as an attack on teachers. You are one angry person and your tirade against anyone who questions teacher's compensation is a bit overboard.
That's what I mean. They took individual salaries and figured this out from lowest to highest. It is not weighted by how many people are at any particular percentile. For all we know most NC teachers could be in the 25th percentile of salary and most LI teachers could be in the 95th percentile.
why would they stick around if they had any mobility?
Many people stay on LI for other than financial reasons. Just because salaries are lowered does not mean everyone will pack up and leave. To argue that those reasons wouldn't keep many people here is simply... intellectually dishonest.
I agree that lowering salaries will have some impact (my guess is minimal) on teacher recruitment, the real question is will that impact affect in any way the education the children receive.
I'm not sure an area seeing growth like the triangle in NC will be cutting salaries..maybe freeze them. Regardless, I've done all the calculations myself. I have very specific numbers budgeted for all different scenarios. I can tell you that a 20% decrease in my wifes salary would lead us to seriously consider leaving LI. We know what she can get paid in other areas (at least 6 other areas), we've seen the houses, we know the lifestyle and the jobs are there for teachers. So, go ahead and cut the salaries. I'd probably end up happier and living an easier life elsewhere anyway. I'm tired of being tailgated by LI jerks.
When all is said and done, I am sure nothing is going to change.
That's what I mean. They took individual salaries and figured this out from lowest to highest. It is not weighted by how many people are at any particular percentile. For all we know most NC teachers could be in the 25th percentile of salary and most LI teachers could be in the 95th percentile.
The problem is dman doesn't understand what a percentile is
Again, here is your statement regarding percentiles: "The percentiles are an average for all teachers in that area..x number of teachers times x combined salaries/x number of teachers."
Percentiles are not an average and there's no multiplying or dividing involved. You are wrong and you don't understand percentiles (or now maybe you do thanks to me). Because of this, you completely missed the point. Now you refuse you admit you are wrong - it's comical watching you try to weasel away from your statement I have in bold.
Yes, I was curious. It would have an affect on the point you are desperately trying to make.
Sure, why not. But I simply posted something that I was curious about and look what it has turned into. It looks like someone is on a mission!
Sorry sparky, the only thing you proved is that you need a stats 101 refresher.
Actually that was my question. I didn't make any point, just asked a question. You made a point without considering all factors. Next time you want to make a blanket statement try to consider other facts, otherwise you are being... intellectually dishonest.
I passed statistics with an A in a state institution, brother. I guess I did need a refresher after 10 years. You win on the percentile thing..now for that stuff that matters....
We know what your mission was in raising the "question" about the statistics. Don't try to weasel away from your positions because you have nothing to back them up. You threw something against the wall ("hey, maybe salary.com is wrong because NC teachers have more experience than teachers on LI!!! Let me float that *** out there and see if anyone buys it!!")..and now you know you can't back it up, so you're backpedaling.
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