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Do you really believe that schools on Long Island would allow their students to take a driver's education course on a race track? Even if they did, do you really think they would allow the students to "push the limits" of their cars at high speeds? I really do not think this would happen.
I did not go to the track (Hamptons) "religiously" either. I used to go their with my 1987 IROC (355, 10:1 compression, pretty lopey cam, Hypertech chip matched to the cam, headers, 3 inch exhaust, stock tuned port injection) on occasion. The car was in the high 14s. It would have been faster but I used to have to come off of the gas when it got to around 85 and then hit the pedal again or it would stay there. I later found out that there was a kit that they sell to remedy this problem for the 700R4 but I never had the chance to buy the kit before I had to sell the car. I sold the car once the transmission started slipping and the gas prices started getting high. At the time I was spending $20 a day to drive to and from work in Brooklyn. It was my only running vehicle at the time and I decided it was just way too much to spend going to and from work.
I also used to go there a number of times with my friend's nostalgia front engine dragster. I do not believe he actually brought it there on race days. We used to take it there on Fridays which was the test and tune day. The best it did while I was there was high 9s. I do remember seeing motorcycles there. I also remember seeing somewhere around 10 Vipers just about every time I went.
I do not know where you would find the stats for this but I do not believe there are more accidents on Long Island since the Bridgehampton track closed as compared to when it was open. There is still the oval track in Riverhead as well. I find it hard to believe the amount of vehicle accidents on Long Island would go up if the track in Riverhead closed.
This has nothing to do with the thread but these posts actually made me think about something and laugh so I will mention it. I had a friend whom owned a 1985 Mustang with the only modifications being an intake and a carb. He used to swear that his car was in the 11 second speed range. He had a speed shop put on the intake and the carb. and he said they told him that and he believed it. He used to argue about it constantly. I used to explain to him how my car had a lot more modifications than his and it was only in the high 14s. I also explained to him that even with the transmission problem I mentioned earlier fixed; the best I would think is low 14s without further modifications. He used to try to get me to race him on the street but I refused. I told him all the time to go to Bridgehampton with me where he can get the actual time and he would not do it. There are many people like this whom believe their cars are waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy faster than they actually are and will swear by it. Most people have no idea how much work is involved in making an 11 second 1/4 mile car. I remember Vettes and Vipers with nitrous at Bridgehampton that could not get better than high 12s. I remember seeing a few in the lower twelves but do not remember ANY of them in the 11s.
I have actually said this in the past and will say it again. I will not sit here and try to say all police officers are great people either. There is good and bad in all walks of life. Professions, neighborhoods, races, etc.
Please try to understand that I probably hate cops that abuse their authority or are flat out corrupt more than those of you that never were police officers. Why? Due to the fact that they make the honest officers job that much harder.
I suppose there are police officers whom do become police officers for reasons that you mention. I believe most others take it for better reasons. The reason I personally took the test when I was 18 was due to the fact that I was 18 years old and only had a GED and did not have the money to go to college. At the time I was working two jobs; one as a mechanic for a yellow taxi cab company at night from 10 PM to 7 AM and the other was delivering food at a Pudgie's chicken place from 11 AM until 9 PM. I decided I was not going to do that for the rest of my life so when the police test came out I had decided to take it. I figured that if I did not make it I would join the military. The background investigation went smoothly for me since I had never been in trouble and I had worked since I was 16 years of age with only one three month break between jobs. The investigator told me I would have to wait until I was 21 to get hired. A few months before I turned 21 they called me up and told me to start the Academy the following week.
The reason I looked at NYPD as a good opportunity was at the time the money was not bad (this was just before the NY PBA started taking 0's in the contracts), the benefits were excellent and the twenty year retirement with a pension seemed like a nice thing. As it turns out I had a heart attack at the age of 34 which the city considered job related so I was forced to retire with a disability pension.
One thing I had never understood is how shortly after I was hired they began to require college to become a police officer. I never did and never will understand how someone with college can be considered better as a police officer than someone whom never had any college. The way I see it someone with no college has a better chance of taking the police test for the reasons I did rather than for reasons some of you are suggesting. This is in reference to the NYPD of course. Suffolk County makes excellent money which would make someone with a lot of college whom can get a good job doing something else more than willing to take the police job instead.
I will also tell you that the excellent pension plan is necessary for keeping officers honest. Most would not do anything corrupt even if they wanted to simply because in the back of their mind is the consequences of losing their job which of course means losing their pension. Most officers also would not want to take a chance of going to prison for obvious reasons.
You had a heart attack at 34? That's rough. I hope you are in good health now.
You had a heart attack at 34? That's rough. I hope you are in good health now.
They put a stent in which keeps the collapsed artery open. I seem to be in good shape now. The cardiologist told me that of course nobody wants a heart attack but if you had to have one and can pick where to have it where mine occurred would be the spot. He said it was the lowest on the branch and the smallest so the damage to the heart was minimal. He explained that any time you have a heart attack part of the heart dies and will not heal but the damage to mine was minimal. I guess that was a good thing.
Needless to say, it was a very scary experience. I woke up one morning and was sweating profusely. I then was actually able to breathe in and out but felt like I was not getting air. At the same time my left are was numb and I felt nauseous. I walked to the bathroom to vomit but never did actually vomit. I then walked to my living room where I felt I was going to faint and my chest felt like someone was pushing down on it. I knew at this point something was really wrong so I told my wife to call 911. That was the last I was able to actually talk before the ambulance arrived. I really do not want to go through that again.
I will give a tip to anyone reading this. For a few years before this happened, if I got angry or something I would feel a tightening feeling in my chest. I never thought anything of it but after the heart attack I told the doctor about it and he said that is called angina and is a sign of a heart attack in the future. I did not know this before he told me that and do not know if other people do either; so if anyone reading this ever gets that; go see your doctor.
Do you really believe that schools on Long Island would allow their students to take a driver's education course on a race track? Even if they did, do you really think they would allow the students to "push the limits" of their cars at high speeds? I really do not think this would happen.
You have no idea what is being discussed here, positively not getting it.
Where on long island would we be able to re-enact every possible situation without putting anyone in harms way or at risk, yet show the problems and the consequenses they bring with them when done wrong..
Where on long island could we possibly teach kids using multiple cars in multiple situations and different styles of driving for each problem...
Are you a parent? if you said yes, you would prohibit your child from taking this course where they would learn not only the classroom aspect but the rules of the road real time, in real senarios and learn car control..
Where they can be put in every circumstance you can find on real roads, and they have now entered the world of driving with more experience, driving knowledge and control then even you.
You would let your child take the life threatening here is what you need to obtain a license thru the states requirements...over that?
I hope you are saying..(oh now i get it) absolutely i would allow them to go.
Where in this thread did you see me say anything about teaching them to RACE, where ? could you quote that for me, please...
Where did you see me say they were using there car?
Where did i say they could use there car, and if they did pass there test and obtain a license i would welcome them back with there own car to understand it's limits in a safe controlled environment so they do not over drive it on the street and end up dead..
WE need a full motorsports facility to teach kids, a drag strip alone will not get it done.
A road course will work... Have you ever went to pro karting orgs, you would be amazed at how those kids are extremely well versed on what and when and how to drive on roads, what chances they do not take...
How many accidents have taken the life of a kid on long island simply due to lack of driving experience and knowing how to drive...
Do a little investigating, you'll be shocked
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Bridgehampton was a road course. National & West Hampton were the drag strip, you're confusing another posters questioning of bridgehampton
Had bridgehampton been open there is a good strong possibility that the PO of the Ferrari would have been there playing with his car then on rt 51... There might even be a better stronger argument that if there been a Drag strip open he might have been there instead since they were utilizing a straight road...
My view would be they went to avoid a animal possibly and it all went wrong.
Riverhead raceway is a small 1/4 mile oval, also a nascar sanctioned track, not open to the public, only licensed nascar drivers in those classes and enduro racing and karting
Spectator drags would be the only thing a non nascar licensed driver could compete in... 1 lap drags aren't going to teach you anything.
I get what you are trying to say. I just do not believe that the average parent would send their children to a road coarse to learn to drive. The majority of people would think of it as a race track and not send their child. If they would not learn how to race there than what would they learn? Driving at 55 mph?
As I have said before and I will say again; we are on the same page as far as believing there should be a road racing course on Long Island. I would actually have my children go there to race if they wanted to because I am into racing and would want to race there myself as well. What I am also saying is that I do not see there being a noticeable amount of less accidents if there was a road course and a drag strip on Long Island. The majority of people whom would drive poorly on the road whom do not care for racing on the track are not going to go there to learn to drive. The majority of people whom drive believe they are great drivers already and going somewhere to learn how to do it better would mean that they would have to first admit to themselves that they are not good drivers. Most people are not going to do that.
I think there is also a larger number of people whom are taught how to drive by their parents than people taught by a driving school. I learned from my father when I first got my permit. I would drive and he would sit next to me and tell me exactly what to do. This took place when we lived in Queens and I remember the first day driving when a bus was coming out of the bus stop into the street and my father told me to gun it. The reason for this was due to the fact that there was a car following mine very close behind me and he knew that if I hit my brake we would have been rear ended. He also knew that I had more than enough room and time to get in front of the bus before it came out if I gunned it. This is something a drivers education course is not going to tell you to do but something that you would do in the real world.
Most parents whom are planning on teaching their children to drive themselves are not going to send their children to a road course to learn to drive because those same parents have to admit they are not that great of drivers and I believe we both know that the majority of people are not willing to admit this.
Even if you go to one of the Richard Petty schools at a race track they only let you go as fast as the lead car and you are not allowed to pass anyone. They do not actually take you around that fast either. Really; the only thing they are letting you do is drive a really cool race car around the track a few times at limited speed. They say this is for insurance reasons. Do you really think it would be much different at a road course on Long Island?
Both could have benefited from having a motorsports facility.
The Ferrari accident in Quoge was speed related.
Totally avoidable if levy used the appropriate properties for motorsports,
My butcher, as well as my accountant and librairian like to drive fast. Are you implying they would not drive fast on a public roadway if there was a venue available for them to exercise their psychologically motivated need for speed?
I understand you're wired in such a way that you have a burning desrie to drive fast...just as I have a burning desire to go swimming in the ocean...which explains why I chose to live in a community near the beach.
Instead of spending your time complaining about a lack of facilities that cater to your needs, wouldn't you be better off moving to a community that meets your needs?
Both could have benefited from obeying the same laws that they and their comrades most certainly gave citations to other people for violating, while routinely giving free passes to each other and their friends and families. We have speed laws for a reason. Not because the municipalities need to generate revenue, but because speed is dangerous. I'm not sure that cops are learning that at the acadamies and applying it their civilian lives. And no, this isn't just a coincidence...many..too many..cops speed because they know they can get away with it. Occasionally you'll have the old timer who plods along at the speed limit, but they are few and far between.
3 men are dead at far too young an age (2 cops, one passenger), and luckily more weren't killed due to their reckless actions.
We need to ask the question why, and I can tell you that the answer has little to do with govt sanctioned racing tracks.
Before you say that I am heartless, how do you think cops would respond to a story about a 32 year old hot-shot lawyer in a BMW flipping over on the LIE? They would say that he was reckless and arrogant after saying that they felt sorry for the guys family. I feel sorry for these men's families, but in one case, reckless is 100% correct, and in the other, it appears that reckless driving is likely the case. Time for some retraining, Suffolk Police Academy.
yeah I agree, The NYPD abuses their power too much.
I get what you are trying to say. I just do not believe that the average parent would send their children to a road coarse to learn to drive. The majority of people would think of it as a race track and not send their child. If they would not learn how to race there than what would they learn? Driving at 55 mph?
It's free! if you are in school and possess a learners permit...
You can not see all the different situations they can be taught on a track that can not be done on the street in a drivers ed class.
We can make every senario happen, from a kid running out into traffic to how to use a turn lane, how to enter it, how to merge, how to make a right on red, when to pull into traffic, how to, wet weather driving, what happens when you exceed the limits in the wet, in the snow, what and how using hand held items effects your driving, driving with other cars at varrying speeds, traffic, other vehicles making wrong moves....how drugs and alcohol directly effect your reaction.
We can institute understeer so they can learn the feel of a vehicle begining to go into a slide, how to correct it, how not to panic, how panicing will make you forget the other tools of the vehicle and make you have an accident, or worse
Best part of it all is it is controlled, so they never hit anything, but get to almost see how quickly they can have an accident, and immediatley see where the mistake was and learn real defensive driving.
Do a little research how many kids here, on long island die within months of obtaining there license...
There is TONS of research proving that areas that have facilities removes/diminishes greatly the risk of street racing, from organized street racing to the more deadly unorganized street racing and the street courses.
See what recently happened in Florida when they opened a temporary facility as a test in a area that had some fatalities.... Not 1, zero, none, nothing.... All accidents stopped
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Vert
Instead of spending your time complaining about a lack of facilities that cater to your needs, wouldn't you be better off moving to a community that meets your needs?
I did.... We had over 45 facilities.......
When i did move here for that I HAD 5 facilities....
You live in the land where motorsports was born in the USA, how about embracing your heritage here? How about saving it, preserving it...
Racing of all types was born here..... road race, stock car race, 1st purpose built facilities, 1st purpose built drag strip.... all here 1st.
Or you had no idea, did you? major roads you use were built for racing on, then donated to L.I.
Soon there will be a very informative history of motorsports show, looking around sept, you should come by when it happens..
It's free! if you are in school and possess a learners permit...
I do not know if you are trying to say that this would be a program through a school or even a dedicated driving school but I do not see either jumping on board with a plan like that. I do not think any school would want to put anyone in a situation where they put the learning driver in a position of oversteering or understeering even though it is a controlled environment.
I am not saying this is a bad idea but I am still sticking to my opinion that not as many people as you think would go for the idea. Also, with the amount of vehicles that travel on Long Island in any given day, I do not believe there would be a noticeable drop in the number of accidents.
You also would have to take into account how many new young drivers would be feeling over confident thinking that they are driving experts due to the fact that they learned how to drive at the race track (you know these same people would not call it a road course, they would call it a race track). You can have someone learn in a controlled environment at a road course all you want and it still is not going to be like driving on the street. There is a big difference between going into a skid with no cars around you and doing so in traffic.
Like i said the info is out there, i can not for the life of me begin to understand your experience in making claims that a experienced driver would be worse because they learned how to control a car and what makes it have issues...
Tell that to the few hundred parents without there kids right now, i would
guarantee they would be here right now backing this us up had we trained them.
Think about what you are saying..... Professional REAL training would do nothing!
Or in another sentence you are saying , Professional REAL training would make them more dangerous since they have more confidence in there ability...
They would have more confidence in what they can and couldn't do....KNOWING that alone keeps you from making mistakes...
I am not saying we are going to make them pro drivers, but i will put my reputation there better then anyone you know that had training by there parents, including active and retired P.O.
Anyone i had my hands on to date has had ZERO accidents, I see all the mistakes made all day long, everyday by everyone else...
Just the other week another child was dead from inexperienced driving....
The facts are facts, accidents either stop or are drastically lowered...
Now using your logic on this.... Why have police? people are still going to kill people, right, so why have police.... You are telling US the same thing... why have a facility.... you'll still have accidents, im willing to put my rep it won't involve my students that passed.
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