New Tenant and LL want us to move out...but we don't have a closing date yet! (lease, eviction)

[brunette-T]

We still do not have a closing date. Every week it's something different the lender wants to see. This week it's a check box on the termite inspection. They need to verify that this check box was supposed to be checked with the inspector...Meanwhile, last week it was our signature missing from the termite inspection.

We rent now, and our landlady found a new tenant. The new tenant closed 11/30, and wants to move in here the Saturday before that, 11/28.

I did tell her almost 3 weeks ago, our Loan Officer says we should close before 11/15. However, we have not closed. Delays after delays, we had a tentative closing date of 11/25 (next Wednesday) until the lender discovered this unchecked box on the termite inspection. The processor at the lender's office said this WILL delay the approval for the closing date a day. So they may have an answer by Wednesday. So the earliest possible date we may close would be Friday. But this is all contingent upon the underwriting's clearing all documentation, including verification of this unchecked box, and any other new information they discover they need.

We do not have a written legal lease here at our rental. Its verbal. We told the owner here and the new tenant we would may be closing next week. They both are trying really hard to get us to agree to be moved out by the weekend of the 28th. Even though I keep telling them, new things come up every week from the lender to delay the closing, our land lady actually suggest we move in with my in-law's (as if that was an option). Giving me a guilt trip about the possibility of loosing this new tenant, and giving me guilt about the new tenant possibly having to pay her seller rent to live in her own house. I tried to tell her as nicely as possible, this is not my problem, and that I have made it clear to all parties that we do not have a definitive closing date.

So now that I know there is a good chance we may not close before the new tenant needs us to, I'm almost scared of calling them to tell them for fear they may start in again about their woes.

How is this any of my responsibility?

[r5020]

Originally Posted by brunette-T

I did tell her almost 3 weeks ago, our Loan Officer says we should close before 11/15.

We do not have a written legal lease here at our rental. Its verbal.

Even though I keep telling them, new things come up every week from the lender to delay the closing, our land lady actually suggest we move in with my in-law's (as if that was an option). Giving me a guilt trip about the possibility of loosing this new tenant, and giving me guilt about the new tenant possibly having to pay her seller rent to live in her own house. I tried to tell her as nicely as possible, this is not my problem, and that I have made it clear to all parties that we do not have a definitive closing date.
How is this any of my responsibility?

No offense but I think it is totally your responsibility because you don't have a lease and it is not your house!

You keep changing your move out date! How is that fair to your landlord or the potential tenant? They have to put their lives on hold for your inspector was not thorough with check-marks and signatures? You should have had an alternative plan (like staying with family or at a motel) if your closing fell through.

All i can say is good luck and be glad you are moving into a home you will own because if you won't ever get a good reference from that landlord.

[brunette-T]

it was all based on a verbal agreement, no lease. she secured a tenant without knowing our move out date. we never gave her one. all we said was our loan officer said we should close by the 15th, but that's not definite. this is the first time we actually have a closing date, and even now i told her its only tentative. she's been well aware of the entire situation since day 1.

the more i think about it, the more i feel its not our fault *because* she agreed to let us stay here until we close. the only reason she's breathing down our necks is because the new tenant knows whats going on with me, knows we're young, and thinks we can be pushed out.

also, the new tenant did not have her closing date until 2 weeks ago. prior to this, there was no problem.

[twingles]

My bff went thru this same thing 15 years ago when she bought her house. Her LL wanted her out basically as soon as he found out they were buying a house.

I know you're trying to be nice about the whole thing, but there isn't really anything you can do unless you have family who can take you in while you wait for closing. SHe can't throw your things out to the curb, make sure she knows you know this...lease or not. It's always hard trying to work around closing dates.

[r5020]

Originally Posted by brunette-T

the more i think about it, the more i feel its not our fault *because* she agreed to let us stay here until we close..

Ok. That's a big piece of the puzzle. If she agreed to let you stay until you close then that is a different case than I suspected. I thought you were more or less stringing her along with the changing of the closing dates.

It is a difficult situation - sounds like you had a lousy inspector though. My advice would be to have your attorney review documentation to make sure everything is airtight so you can get this closing done without any more surprises.

Then you can give your landlord a firm date.

[mission-sundancer]

hey brunette-T, verbal or not...your LL is going to have to wait until you move and that is that!! you can't be thrown out without legal (court) notice. your LL should let you stay because you could file harassment charges on her and sue her in court if anything happens to your personal belongings. make sure YOU don't owe her any money on any rent. stand firm!!!

[AndreaII]

Time for a wake-up call Brunette-T, and this is coming from a one-time LL who has read every NY landlord/tenant law book available in the library system. I had extremely difficult, devious tenants for two miserable years and had to know the law to a tee. They caused a legal dispute at the get go and I didn't want any more problems from them, hence reading every landlord book out there.

Being that you have a verbal lease and nothing in writing, this means you have a month-to-month lease where either party (either LL or tenant) can give 30 days notice. This means that your LL can give you 30 days to move out and you have to. Period. Unless you want to risk an eviction proceeding that will get you out. And you don't want that on your record. Or you can give 30 days notice as well, which means that your LL can't stop you from moving out.

Stringing along a LL with different move-out dates despite all of the problems you're having with closing on your house (ie, bank, inspections, etc.) is NOT your LL's problem at all. Your LL is not legally bound to put a roof over your head no matter what obstacles come up in your life. Your obstacles are your problem. Your LL is not legally or duty bound to house you until you see fit to finally move out. And if you have an experienced LL, they don't want problems. And you are becoming a problem to them. Remember, it's not all about you.

A good landlord isn't looking for legal disputes or trouble. They are looking to rent out their property to good tenants who do what they say they're going to do and not play games. Who move in when they're supposed to, not ruin the place, and move out when it is initially agreed upon, whether or not it's verbal or in a written lease. BTW, if you had a written lease that said you were to be out on November 15, if you weren't out by then I can guarantee you would already have an eviction process going on at this time. From your post, it actually sounds as if you have a LL who is flexible to a point and not making your life a complete living hell. Keep in mind you're stressing out your LL over this - they want everything settled and with a new tenant ready to go (which they have), despite the fact you think they are in the wrong.

I don't blame your LL for finding a new tenant. This will add pressure on you to get out. And you're LL has the right to rent out their place since you already gave notice. Once you give notice legally that's it, none of this changing dates and playing games. What your LL is trying to avoid is a legal dispute of any kind, but that doesn't mean they don't have a breaking point.

If your LL initially agreed to let you stay until your supposed closing in the middle of November and that closing hasn't taken place, that's not the LL's problem and not their responsibility to house you while you're waiting for your closing to eventually arrive. However you are the LL's problem in that they have a new tenant, are probably sick of your delays, see more stalling coming from you and just want to get a new tenant in and not be strung along. As I said before, all of your legal problems with your house isn't your LL's problem at all - not one bit.

Fact: Your LL can give you (and who's to say they haven't - you haven't mentioned it here one way or the other) 30 days notice to clear out either verbally or in writing. Legally you have to go. You have no choice in the matter. If you are not out in 30 days, an eviction notice will be slapped on your door, and you'd better pay attention to it. Your LL has the right (one of the few rights LLs have in the State of NY) to go and proceed with an eviction. Once that eviction becomes official - that's when your "other" nightmare begins (besides the stress from your house closing being delayed). You will have to show up in court and defend yourself before a judge as to why you're still in the house despite the 30-day notice. A judge will probably give you more time to squat there while you stall for your closing, but you will still owe rent, and if you try and get out of that rent when all is said and done, the LL can hire a collection agency to go after you. If you're still there after judge's time allotment is over, you go back to court and do the whole court thing over again, hopefully get more time to squat despite the fact your LL will probably be livid over the whole mess (which will not be fun to live around), and if you're not out, then the sheriff will toss your stuff into the street along with you. And it will be on your credit record for a good long time and you won't be buying anything much less a house.

The problem with your situation from a LL's perspective is that you're presenting a situation that can drag on for months, with you asking for more and more time in small dribs and drabs, keeping your LL on the hook without knowing when you really are leaving. Legally a LL isn't obliged to be on your hook. It becomes nerve-wracking very fast to a LL. And your deal on your house could fall through completely. A house is never sold until the closing takes place. And once you give notice you're moving, that should be the last time you give that type of notice to your LL. They will take your notice seriously, as your LL did. No game playing. Makes for too many problems - the kind you're creating. The law is very definite regarding tenant/LL rules.

So, if I were you, I'd get out of there asap. Go out, find a temporary place to live, put your stuff into storage somewhere (maybe a relative's basement???), rough it a little. My husband and I lived in my parents' attic for 6 weeks with our stuff all over the place. Finally it all came together. Sometimes things aren't perfect. Usually nothing is. It will be worth it in the end when you move into your new house.

These days closings are being delayed because the banks are scared to death of writing even one more loan to someone who can't pay. So they go over everything in triplicate making sure things are signed, initialed, inspected, etc. In my closing when I sold my house the wife of the purchaser hadn't signed the contract, so that took 2 weeks more. Yet another delay. It's a sign of the economic times. And I know you're super stressed out over all of your closing problems, but again it's not your LL's problem.

So, stop giving your LL a problem. It's not the other way around - your Ll is not giving you a problem at all. I know you don't want to hear that, but it's the truth. And if you don't believe it, then reread my post from the beginning until it sinks in.

[brunette-T]

we never had a closing date or a moving date. the first *tentative* closing date has been set for 11.25. prior to this, the only thing i said was my loan officer said we *should* close by 11.15, which obviously didn't happen. now there's this one check box on the inspection report pushing the closing one more day so that underwriting can review this check box.

the new tenant just got her closing date (she's selling her house), knowing we did not have our closing date. she even shared her concern with me telling me she is scared that she'd close before me. she knew full well we did not have our closing date and that the LL had agreed to let us stay until we did.

its the fact that the new tenant is making the LL try to kick us out, knowing we had this agreement.

[AndreaII]

I'm sure you're super-stressed out over both your house closing that keeps getting hung up and your current LL situation. Eventually your closing will take place. Mine did. I didn't think it would. At one point I thought my buyer was trying to back out of the deal - that's how long things were dragging out. My buyer took a week to sign the contract, then it turned out the wife had to sign it too and that was caught by their bank literally around 2.5 months later. It turned out the buyers were doing some mortgage shopping and wouldn't commit to a mortgage for quite some time. The husband signed the contract around March 7, 2009, and in early May I called my lawyer and realtor to see if I still had a deal since I hadn't heard a thing for that length of time. It wasn't until the beginning of June when I found out I had a real deal and that it wasn't falling through. We closed on June 22. Needless to say, it was rather stressful at the time. Fortunately it's done. Closings these days take lots of time. Banks are being extra careful.

Regardless of your stress, you still have to deal with the problem at hand which is you don't want to move, and obviously your LL wants you to move. If your LL didn't give you notice to move, you wouldn't be posting here. But you are - so something is up. And I suspect your LL really does want you to move and they really have given you official notice.

To cut to the chase: If your LL has given you 30 days notice you have to move. Doesn't matter what the reasons are why they want you to move. Doesn't matter about your movable closing date and all the specific glitches that are causing the closing date to move back, doesn't even matter about the new tenant and their set of problems. Although I understand from your post that you think your problems with your LL are because of the new tenant being homeless and wanting you out of there. Even if this particular tenant wasn't in the picture, your LL would be searching for a new tenant anyway. It's because your situation is so unpredictable - some LLs can't afford to lose even a couple of weeks' worth of rent. And now your LL has someone they probably think will make a good tenant, and your LL doesn't want to lose them.

It seems to me if your LL is pressuring you to get out, they really want you out. If they're not, you can stay there indefintely. With a month-to-month lease both of you get to call the shots about how long you stay. Keep in mind a LL does have the legal right to give you 30 days notice and legally doesn't need to give you any kind of reason for it.

Your LL has the right to change their mind about letting you stay indefinitely until your closing. Now if you got that promise about your staying until you close in writing with your LL signing the document, then you would have some legal clout and your LL would have to follow through.

Has your LL told you that the new tenant is making them kick you out? If your LL hasn't told you that in a crystal clear way, you're just fishing for reasons and playing the blame game for your misfortune.

I still think the best thing is for you to clear out on time so you don't get into any legal trouble. That's the last thing you need right now especially with a house closing in the offing. It's a lot of work to move twice, but at least you'll have your LL off your back and that ought to make for a lot less stress.

[brunette-T]

she just asked me to leave a few days ago.