when your a residential tenant and your rent is late can they legally charge you late fees? (Nice: renters, eviction)

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by dandnw

Dear Calguy and Nita,
My question was: how do I count the days? When does it start? On the 6th? It is due on the 1st and late if not received by the 5th. And do I count the day it is paid also? Thanks
Nancy

If there is a grace period allowing up until the 5th then the tenant has until midnight of the 5th to pay. After that you start adding the late charges. However, there are also a few catches. If the 6th falls on a weekend or a holiday you cannot give a "3 Day Notice to Pay or Quit" until the next business day.

[lapiekos]

My daughter rents a house in Encino Ca. She is allowed to sublet the rooms and rented to someone on 10.1.10 He has not paid his rent for 11.1.10 and is refusing to pay it since 10.31.10. She gave him a 30 day notice on 11.1.10 and she gave her own 30 day notice to the property management also on 11.1.10. How can she get him to pay Nov rent and leave on 11.30.10 or just to leave. He is not on the lease with the property management company. He has also not paid his share of the utilities.The property management says that she will be served the eviction notice even though she will vacate by the 30th, if the tenant does not leave.

[fireteller]

IANAL but in followup to SoCal35, the ca.gov doc at: http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...k/catenant.pdf seems to contradict this thread. On page 30:

"A rental agreement cannot include a predetermined late fee." And "A late fee that is so high that it amounts to a penalty is not legally valid." In other words you can charge a late fee that is equal to reasonable actual damages as assessed at the time the damage occurs (like late fee on your mortgage, or interest) , but you may not penalize a tenant for being late. Your only remedy to such a situation is to start an eviction preceding with a 3 Day notice or the like.

The document goes on to say that a tenant can ask you to justify any fee you charge.

[CALGUY]

In answer to a question asked in another post,
If the rent is due on the first, it is up to the landlord to decide(and place into the rental agreement) when late fees become due.
I give a three day grace period.
Rents are due on the first, and if not paid by midnight of the third, late charges begin on the fourth.
As for a reason for late charges, there could be any number of things why a late charge would be assessed.
Examples: A second trip to the bank to deposit the late rent.
Having to re-post in one's business ledger after all other rents are in, and deposited.
As a deterrent to stop late rental payments.
Bob.

[Ceece]

It's really easier to train your brain to think of rent being due at the end of the month rather than the beginning, that way when you see the "1st" you know you are already at the end of your "grace period". Simple mind trick that works wonders.

Also, "someone told me" is pretty funny.

[munchitup]

Originally Posted by Ceece

It's really easier to train your brain to think of rent being due at the end of the month rather than the beginning, that way when you see the "1st" you know you are already at the end of your "grace period". Simple mind trick that works wonders.

Also, "someone told me" is pretty funny.

My problem is that I don't get paid until the 31st, and I'd rather not risk the e-payment going through before my direct deposit is put in.

Calguy - that is how my building's management does it too. Except they are idiots and put "3-Day Notice to Quit" notices on everyone's door on the 2nd if they haven't received payment (even if your e-payment is "pending" ). Your late fees seem fair - I would be pretty upset if the landlord charged a 10% late fee right off the bat.

[fireteller]

Originally Posted by CALGUY

...
As a deterrent to stop late rental payments.
Bob.

Actually that is specifically prohibited. Which was my point. It cannot be used as a punitive measure, only to recover actual damages. As a landlord in an eviction proceeding you will be obliged to show those damages, and the court will have to agree that they are reasonable. Further if you collect these 'late fees' unlawfully they are considered added to the tenants deposit, and are refundable to the tenant when they leave.

You are potentially exposed to a liability if you fail to return the unjustified fees.

[powermargin]

Originally Posted by fireteller

IANAL but in followup to SoCal35, the ca.gov doc at: http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...k/catenant.pdf seems to contradict this thread. On page 30:

"A rental agreement cannot include a predetermined late fee." And "A late fee that is so high that it amounts to a penalty is not legally valid." In other words you can charge a late fee that is equal to reasonable actual damages as assessed at the time the damage occurs (like late fee on your mortgage, or interest) , but you may not penalize a tenant for being late. Your only remedy to such a situation is to start an eviction preceding with a 3 Day notice or the like.

The document goes on to say that a tenant can ask you to justify any fee you charge.

You omitted a key part of the cited information:

"The exception to this rule is when it would be difficult to figure out the actual cost to the landlord caused by the late rent payment."

Which is pretty much always the case...

[Ceece]

Originally Posted by munchitup

My problem is that I don't get paid until the 31st, and I'd rather not risk the e-payment going through before my direct deposit is put in.

Calguy - that is how my building's management does it too. Except they are idiots and put "3-Day Notice to Quit" notices on everyone's door on the 2nd if they haven't received payment (even if your e-payment is "pending" ). Your late fees seem fair - I would be pretty upset if the landlord charged a 10% late fee right off the bat.

So I'm guessing you DON'T have an emergency fund?

Best to start now and build a little until you have a months rent in your account at all times and this problem goes away.

[CALGUY]

Originally Posted by fireteller

Actually that is specifically prohibited. Which was my point. It cannot be used as a punitive measure, only to recover actual damages. As a landlord in an eviction proceeding you will be obliged to show those damages, and the court will have to agree that they are reasonable. Further if you collect these 'late fees' unlawfully they are considered added to the tenants deposit, and are refundable to the tenant when they leave.

You are potentially exposed to a liability if you fail to return the unjustified fees.

Obviously no landlord is going to go into court and state" the reason I charge a late fee is to stop the tenants from being late with their rent".
There are many other legitimate reasons why a landlord would charge late fees, as I mentioned above.
Bob.