Los Angeles finally about to crack down on homeless camps (San Diego: loans, lawyer)

[MordinSolus]

Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat

Are you a law enforcement officer?

Every cop I see posting on city-data spreads misinformation with the goal of supporting hard-line police tactics. There's a reason people don't trust cops as much as they used to. If they're not supporting illogical, archaic laws that only serve to throw more people in jail for non-violent crimes they're lying about statistics to make themselves look better. The LAPD is one of the least trusted police forces in the country because of these tactics.

Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat

Are you in the business of law enforcement? Furthermore, do you know Officer Grey?

...this is as big a red herring as I've ever seen.

[brrabbit]

Originally Posted by MordinSolus

Every cop I see posting on city-data spreads misinformation with the goal of supporting hard-line police tactics. There's a reason people don't trust cops as much as they used to. If they're not supporting illogical, archaic laws that only serve to throw more people in jail for non-violent crimes they're lying about statistics to make themselves look better. The LAPD is one of the least trusted police forces in the country because of these tactics.



...this is as big a red herring as I've ever seen.

Cops I've met personally (when not on duty!) were all good, reasonable guys (and gals). There must be some bad ones, not more, not less than among general population. It's politicians who make stupid laws and force them to enforce those, who are to blame.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by MordinSolus

Every cop I see posting on city-data spreads misinformation with the goal of supporting hard-line police tactics. There's a reason people don't trust cops as much as they used to. If they're not supporting illogical, archaic laws that only serve to throw more people in jail for non-violent crimes they're lying about statistics to make themselves look better. The LAPD is one of the least trusted police forces in the country because of these tactics.



...this is as big a red herring as I've ever seen.

There are plenty of cops who have the same philosophy as I do, we just aren't necessarily as vocal as the 'warrior cops'. We have to do things differently, keeping the public safe is always the primary goal but we can't keep putting people in prison for relatively minor, non-violent crimes. That is the goal of prop 47 and there are plenty of law enforcement agencies out there who will do whatever they can to make it fail, but I'm not too worried, they tried that with AB109 in 2011 but the results are in, it did not increase crime and recidivism has dropped

[Exitus Acta Probat]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I already addressed 'why' it is too early to tell, but let me try this again.

1) Her Chief of Police, Charlie Beck states it's "too early to tell" "Proposition 47 cannot be taken out of the equation," Beck said. But he added there is no data to support that yet, noting that several statewide studies are underway. Beck also cited a rise in homelessness as a possible reason for the increase in crime. "The city has seen an increase in folks who live on the street who are more likely to be involved in violent incidents," he said. Beck pointed to a 6 percent increase in domestic violence and an increase in gang-related crimes as other reasons. "Its really the totality of these things," he said. Criminal justice experts have said it’s too early to determine whether the increase in crime is related to changes in incarceration policies, and whether it represents a longer term trend. They note crime remains at historic lows".
Crime in LA up, Chief Beck says it's too early to know why | 89.3 KPCC

2)Rearrests after prop 47 Counties show 'mixed results' while a statement from CDCR states:
Statewide numbers from the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation show that 3,068 inmates were released from California prisons since Prop 47 passed last November. Since then, just 14 have returned -- a recidivism rate of .005 percent. That's just a sliver of a fraction compared to the state's overall recidivism rate of 61 percent.
Inmates released under Prop 47 -- Where are they now? | Local News - KCRA Home

3) Prop 47 the debate continues: Prop 47: The Debate Continues

• Among the issues that have cropped up in Los Angeles is an apparent reluctance to make arrests for the low-level crimes that used to lead to felony charges. It’s a change that retired California Superior Court Judge George Eskin has called counterintuitive.
  
• One criminologist who isn’t a fan of the early assessments of Proposition 47’s impact on crime is Barry Krisberg, a Senior Fellow of the Earl Warren Institute at the University of California Berkeley Law School—and an occasional contributor to The Crime Report. “This alleged increase in property crimes, I’m not believing it,” he said in an interview. “That information isn’t even officially produced yet; it’s based on police counts, which are often inaccurate.
  
• John Jay College criminologist Peter Moskos, a former Baltimore police officer, said in an interview that in the short-term, an increase in certain types of crime would be expected.
  
• Former San Diego Police Chief Bill Landsowne, who retired in March 2014, says law enforcement organizations — in particular the state’s Police Chiefs, Sheriffs' and District Attorneys associations — are responsible for orchestrating a media push to discredit Proposition 47.
  
• “It’s absolutely premature, you can’t just snap your fingers and fix a complicated problem,” O’Donnell, a professor at John Jay College, said. “This is going to be something that has a long-term impact; trying to make a 60-day assessment is impossible.”

I don't trust Beck -- like all our police chiefs, he's more of a politician than a LEO. Furthermore, somebody who actually works on the street ought to know more about who's committing crimes than Horsetrader Beck. Furthermore, if you're a LEO, then you know that the majority of property crimes are committed by illicit drug users, and it is they who have been let out of prison due to prop 47. Can we please use some good sense rather than talking points created by some of the same people who also claim that illegal immigration also has no effect on crime?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat

I don't trust Beck -- like all our police chiefs, he's more of a politician than a LEO. Furthermore, somebody who actually works on the street ought to know more about who's committing crimes than Horsetrader Beck. Furthermore, if you're a LEO, then you know that the majority of property crimes are committed by illicit drug users, and it is they who have been let out of prison due to prop 47. Can we please use some good sense rather than talking points created by some of the same people who also claim that illegal immigration also has no effect on crime?

Convenient of you to bring this up as it shows how out of touch you are with the realities of crime. Here's some information for you from another post in another thread:

Quote:
—"Foreign-born individuals exhibit remarkably low levels of involvement in crime across their life course." (Bianca Bersani, University of Massachusetts, 2014. Published in Justice Quarterly.)
Quote:
— "There’s essentially no correlation between immigrants and violent crime." (Jörg Spenkuch, Northwestern University, 2014. Published by the university.)
Quote:
— "[i]mmigrants are underrepresented in California prisons compared to their representation in the overall population. In fact, U.S.-born adult men are incarcerated at a rate over two-and-a-half times greater than that of foreign-born men." (Public Policy Institute of California, 2008.)
Quote:
— "[D]ata from the census and a wide range of other empirical studies show that for every ethnic group without exception, incarceration rates among young men are lowest for immigrants, even those who are the least educated. This holds true especially for the Mexicans, Salvadorans and Guatemalans, who make up the bulk of the undocumented population." (Ruben Rumbaut, University of California, 2008. Published by the Police Foundation.)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat

I don't trust Beck -- like all our police chiefs, he's more of a politician than a LEO. Furthermore, somebody who actually works on the street ought to know more about who's committing crimes than Horsetrader Beck. Furthermore, if you're a LEO, then you know that the majority of property crimes are committed by illicit drug users, and it is they who have been let out of prison due to prop 47. Can we please use some good sense rather than talking points created by some of the same people who also claim that illegal immigration also has no effect on crime?

I have used common sense. If you think it is common sense to put a person in prison for possessing a small amount of a controlled substance then we have nothing left to discuss.

THIS is the likely outcome of putting a person in prison:

1) Gang involvement- it is absolutely necessary for everyone who enters a California prison to join a gang, at least for younger inmates that gang involvement generally continues after their release.

2) Best education in criminality that money can buy. A youngster in prison will learn how to commit nearly every crime that you can think of.

3) Likelihood of never getting a decent job. A felony with a prison sentence can only be eradicated with a pardon from the Governor, he grants like 12 a year.

4) Limited ability to rent an apartment or qualify for subsidized housing. Crime Free multi-housing programs get property managers to agree not to rent to anyone with a felony conviction.

All at a cost of $66,000 per year.

The most foolish thing a society can do is send non-violent, non-serious offenders to state prison, it's a travesty.

Prop 47 was designed to avoid that; and to give people a chance to reintegrate into society. The same offense that was formerly a felony can be prosecuted as a misdemeanor with a possible sentence of 12 months, or the DA can refer the individual to drug court. If LAPD thinks it's cute to try to make prop 47 fail by not arresting people for misdemeanors, then that's on them, because there are plenty of other agencies who regularly arrest and prosecute people arrested for misdemeanor offenses and they aren't having this 'crime wave'

That's all I have to say about it, take it or leave it- believe it or not, I'm sick of trying to explain something to you and have you come back and try to pick apart valid data that I spent my time posting for you.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat

Can we please use some good sense rather than talking points created by some of the same people who also claim that illegal immigration also has no effect on crime?

No, I am not going to waste my time having some discussion with you about crime and illegal immigration.

[No_Recess]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

I'd rather be homeless in LA than living anywhere in the Midwest.

This Rust Belt transplant agrees.

[Exitus Acta Probat]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Convenient of you to bring this up as it shows how out of touch you are with the realities of crime.

On the contrary, I'm fully aware of how information is manipulated in accordance with the same principles taught in the Frankfurt School.

[Exitus Acta Probat]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I have used common sense. If you think it is common sense to put a person in prison for possessing a small amount of a controlled substance then we have nothing left to discuss.

Have it your way. I regard my Senior Lead Officer as being an authority on the matter, rather than somebody who is a pro-drug advocate on an Internet message forum and who wants to convince me that it's not a problem for society when drug users are released from prison. And I suspect you're a SJW attorney or something of the sort rather than an actual LEO, because I cannot imagine somebody working in law enforcement for decades and having the opinions that you've expressed. And especially somebody who quotes Beck as an authority on anything, since the rank and file LAPD cannot stand him, and most citizens who follow current events know he's as big a liar as Garcetti, though you have not indicated where you allegedly worked as a LEO.