"That Land Is No Good For Anything!" (Augusta: for sale, real estate)

[Nor'Eastah]

We purchased another couple acres of undeveloped land about a year ago. It is not too far from our first property, west of Millinocket into Piscataquis County, in a UT. Except for a dirt driveway, it is all wooded, and we purchased it for a woodlot, mainly. Over the summer, we towed a 5th wheel onto this parcel, not for anyone to live in (who'd want to?), but for someone to use during the day, while cutting wood.

Long story short, we were told that we could not put the camper on the land without a septic system. This parcel is pretty wet; we bought it for the trees, not to build on. Also were told we could not have a small building constructed nor delivered there...without a septic system. We tried to explain that there would be no plumbing, no "residence", and the camper's holding tank would be emptied off the premises. Also that it was too wet to support anything but a very expensively engineered, creative "septic system".

In exasperation, the code enforcement guy told me point-blank that if it wouldn't support a septic system, then "that land is no good for anything!". Seems to me, it's good for a lot of things...cutting wood, building a pond, raising poultry, whatever. I can understand land purchsed for residential purposes, but what is it with their fixation on septic systems??? When there's no plumbing and no residence? Really?

Anybody have any ideas, experience, or advice?

[AustinB]

You would need to get a permit for the pond.... Ponds are considered structures. My opinion, but if the camper is registered, it's non of the ceo s business where it is.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

That so-called code enforcement officer is full of it right up to his eyebrows. He can't tell you where to camp on your land. You can park your camper at the edge of a brook if you want and have part of your camper OVER the brook if you like to listen to the brook babble when you go to sleep. You can have a dozen friends with campers on your land for a LUPC festival if you want and tell that stuffed shirt that is what you are doing. Just don't charge money for all those campers or you will have a campground that does need a permit. The law does not differentiate between tent camping and a camper. You don't need a permit to pitch a tent either.

You do not have to file a "harvest notification" when you cut wood for yourself. You only need to file one when you intend to sell wood commercially.

The election is over and LUPC is about to go nuts. I should start a LUPC watch thread. Shine the bright light of truth on these tin pot dictators and they tend to scurry back into their holes.

And another thing: You can buy a used porta-potty pretty cheap in Uncle Henry's, Craig's List or somewhere. You do not need a permit to put that on the land. It is not a "structure". It is by definition a portable waste unit and it is good for the environment.

[kellysmith]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

That so-called code enforcement officer is full of it right up to his eyebrows. He can't tell you where to camp on your land. You can park your camper at the edge of a brook if you want and have part of your camper OVER the brook if you like to listen to the brook babble when you go to sleep. You can have a dozen friends with campers on your land for a LUPC festival if you want and tell that stuffed shirt that is what you are doing. Just don't charge money for all those campers or you will have a campground that does need a permit. The law does not differentiate between tent camping and a camper. You don't need a permit to pitch a tent either.

You do not have to file a "harvest notification" when you cut wood for yourself. You only need to file one when you intend to sell wood commercially.

The election is over and LUPC is about to go nuts. I should start a LUPC watch thread. Shine the bright light of truth on these tin pot dictators and they tend to scurry back into their holes.

And another thing: You can buy a used porta-potty pretty cheap in Uncle Henry's, Craig's List or somewhere. You do not need a permit to put that on the land. It is not a "structure". It is by definition a portable waste unit and it is good for the environment.

Not quite right, unless you move it off the property every few months.

Transient Occupancy:
“Occupancy that does not exceed 120 consecutive days” 12 M.R.S.A. §682(18). For the purposes
of the application of the Commission’s rules regarding campsites, the Commission considers
occupancy to mean the length of time the tent, trailer, camper, recreational vehicle, or similar
device used for camping is located on the site.

The 5th wheel must be registered and have been there less than 120 days, or it is considered a "Dwelling" and as I was told by a representative of LUPC, if you lug a pail of water into a dwelling, you need a waste water plan in place to get rid of it.

[Nor'Eastah]

Oh, we don't charge anybody any money for anything...there was just one 5th wheel there (which is registered to me) and now removed. I've had my pick-up over there a few times. We are trying to get some sort of cordwood cutting/splitting operation set up for this winter, also for ourselves, not for sale. We'd like a safe place to leave saws and a gas splitter while we're not there, and to warm up in when we are there.

I was about to consult with an attorney, but thought I'd ask here first. It seems strange that you have no ownership rights to your own land! We aren't going over there to poop and pollute. And once we get an acre or so cleared and stumped, diverting that water - which looks more like a series of seeps or springs, than a swamp - should make a nice pond, and dry up some of the other land. I have no problem with permits to do that. I am law-abiding. But a septic system for that?

Thanks for replies!

[Nor'Eastah]

Originally Posted by kellysmith

The 5th wheel must be registered and have been there less than 120 days, or it is considered a "Dwelling" and as I was told by a representative of LUPC, if you lug a pail of water into a dwelling, you need a waste water plan in place to get rid of it.

Is there anything we could set up that very obviously would NOT be considered a "dwelling"? Do all businesses and LLC's (which do not have a public establishment on the premises) need septic systems to conduct any operations at all? I ask, as I have more than one LLC and could transfer ownership to one of them. I'm just trying to get away from the "residence" thing. Do lumbering ops have to move out every 120 days?

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by kellysmith

The 5th wheel must be registered and have been there less than 120 days, or it is considered a "Dwelling" and as I was told by a representative of LUPC, if you lug a pail of water into a dwelling, you need a waste water plan in place to get rid of it.

Or a place to dispose of busybodies.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

"as I was told by a representative of LUPC"

They will "tell" you all kinds of things. Some LUPC employees are straight shooters, but some are gonzo radical greens with radical agendas. They want NO development in the 52% of Maine that they rule. Like the "official" who says land is no good for anything, they will discourage property owners if they can. Campers with grey water tanks and black water tanks are perfectly legal on property you own or on your friend's or relatives' land.

"Bucket of water?"

BS! You can take a hot shower in your camper and it is none of LUPC's business.

[Purplecow]

As a new Maine resident from Pennsylvania, I found this thread one of the most informative about politics in Maine that I've read yet on CD. I looked up the LUPC, and when I saw it was created in 2012, I was stumped. Is there that severe a conservative/liberal schism within state government? I searched "LePage and LUPC" and narrowed the search to the last month, and came up with LePage has legislation in mind to weaken attorney general. The fact that the article references my state of origin in regard to importing natural gas (from fracking) brought to mind the intensely bitter gubernatorial fight in PA that ended with the Republican governor's (Tom Corbett's) ouster in favor of the most lackluster Democratic candidate for the office in the last twenty-five years, as well as the roiling hatred of conservatives for liberals there, and vice versa.

I'm ill from an unanticipated struggle with an Augusta-situated agency over issues almost identical to the one under discussion here. I haven't posted and won't post about it, but would like to know if I should expect the same extreme political schism that exists in Pennsylvania to be business-as-usual here in Maine, too. If a Republic governor is surrounded by contrarian despots in unelected positions... As another poster said, and as I found true with my own government-related issue, feeling like Tyrone Power, two epees in each hand and mounting the castle stairs backwards: if you stand your ground with the little dictators, they change their tune. But at least in my case, they do not back down and, at least in my case, make you ill; and a law-abiding resident should not have to fall ill in order to live a law-abiding life anywhere.

My sympathies to the OP.

[Nor'Eastah]

Originally Posted by NewNorthMainer

But at least in my case, they do not back down and, at least in my case, make you ill; and a law-abiding resident should not have to fall ill in order to live a law-abiding life anywhere.

My sympathies to the OP.

I am just thankful that this property is not the one I live on!

This is just a small parcel I purchased to harvest some cordword, and I will definitely do that with it. I will get my money's worth out of it, and just abandon it or sell it later, if need be. This has been a fairly cheap lesson for me. But I am sensing that this sort of thing is occurring all over the state, which causes me concern. Perhaps the state of Maine does not value my tax dollars, after all? Perhaps I am not settled in my last home? Next stop: the best real estate attorney I can find. This will not happen to me again....