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How would you propose to distinguish between how many homes I own?
I currently own homes in other states outside of Maine. The state of Maine does not 'know'. Why would they?
I buy a piece of land, the seller signs a quit-claim-deed to me 'Fred Schmucatelli', and every year I pay taxes on that land. Now if 'Fred Schmucatelli' also owns land in Arizona; I see no method by which those two states are going to coordinate together to figure out how many pieces of land Fred owns.
I think they meant those who are not full time residence of Maine but own a 2nd home here and either vacation here periodically, or stay here 6 months minus a day. I have no idea how it could be done w/out a state constitutional amendment.
"No offense to tourists or people that own SECOND/VACATION homes here but doesnt it seem that the state should just tax the crap out of those people. It seems like a no brainer. I know personally I will never be able to afford a second/vacation home and obviously those people have the money to throw around"
No offense! but I thinks its pretty ignorant to think that the state of Maine should tax the crap out of people who come here to vacation and invest in our economy, by just visiting or owning 2nd homes. Those people use extremely little to no services, and of course have a choice where they go. Not to mention, do you really think we have a tax revenue problem as apposed to a spending problem?
Its also disturbing that you think anyone who has a second home has money to throw around. If they do, maybe its because they spent a life time working hard and earning it and not worrying if the state can take care of them!
Im going to answer in two ways.....first of all a rude response to a posting I think defines the word 'ignorant'....no need to get your panties in bunch because someone has a different opinion than you do.
Second of all....you are overlooking one of the reasons property is sky high in Maine. Its because people who have done so well outside of Maine come here and buy homes at expensive prices. Therefore the people who live here year round can't afford the property value increases because of those sales. Which means those homes that have been in families for generations have to be sold due to increases in property taxes. All because someone wants a nice little cottage on the coast of Maine that they can brag about owning. But does that matter to someone who wants that 'summer cottage'...of course not. To them its just a bargain.
As far as my supposed 'distrubing' statement....For some reason most people who can afford a second home I wouldnt describe as 'barely scraping by' which would be the opposite of 'well off'.....So yes, I would think that if you can afford a second home, you have money to throw around. You simply choose to spend it on a second home. Most people I know are happy just being able to afford one. Im thinking if I could afford to lay down a quarter to a half million dollars on a home that I would be in for a few weeks to a couple months a year, I would consider that a luxury purchase not a necessity. And for some reason Im thinking a lot of Maine people would agree with me on that one.
And am I to read your posting to imply that Maine people don't work hard...because that's how it reads. So what about those Maine residents who worked a lifetime of long hours in factories who now can't afford to pay their property taxes. What would you say to them? Gee, I guess 40 years ago you should have gone for that college degree, moved out of Maine, got a better job, then come back and bought the house you always wanted. Apparently those people deserve it more than you do.
Last edited by warpedg; 05-28-2007 at 10:03 PM..
Reason: typo
My response was not rude. It IS ignorant to think that you can just “tax the crap” out of people who come to Maine to either visit, or own 2nd homes. Both of which HELP Maine’s economy. That would not solve anything and would truly make things worse. And again I will ask, do you really think Maine has a revenue problem apposed to a spending problem.
Out of Stator’s who invest in Maine’s economy by buying 2nd homes is only a small part of why Maine’s home prices have increased. The cost of doing business has increased like wages, cost of materials, fuel, ect. There is more people moving into southern Maine, and lack of supply.
Your generalizations on how people who by 2nd homes must have money to throw around, I do not even know how to respond to that. You almost have a resentment towards people who have had success financially. And why would you think you could never own a second home yourself, I know many hard working Mainers that own 2nd homes. And though I am not there yet I plan to be eventually.
We all have choices in life and this country is supposed to be a free country in which you are free to succeed or free to fail. There are some people who think that those who have become financially successful have somehow cheated the system, got lucky, or now owe the ones who have not been so “lucky”. I do not understand how working in Maine correlates to failure. You do not have to leave the state of Maine to become successful. I live here and though I will be moving have been fairly successful.
As far as property taxes are concerned I’ll share this with you. You take a town, any town. Add up the total value of that town, than you take the total budget or cost of running that town and determine what percentage of the total value you need to pay for that budget. There is your MILL RATE.
Ex. if your home is worth 100k and your taxes are 2000 (mil rate of 20 ($20.00 for every $1000 in value) Now lets say everyone’s value has doubled. Your house is now $200k, but it still cost the SAME to run the town. Your taxes should still be $2000 with a mil rate of $10.00.
Bottom line, Increased home values does not automatically mean an increase in property taxes. If your paying more in property taxes its because the town you live in is spending more. Out of stators who own 2nd homes generally do not drive up city or town budgets. Families with children and unemployed immigrants usually have the biggest impact and generally it’s in our schools.
I think there are several issues here. First of all, the biggest single problem in Maine is NOT raising revenues, but it is the insistence of the legislature to continually spend money that it doesn't have. The legislature refuses to stop spending money, floating bond issue on bond issue, and then spending more money by having referenda for the voters to vote on...and ultimately pass. So the problem is not those "from away", but the enemy is....US.
Next up is the absolutely out of control educational system in this state. The governor is tryiing to change the way the educational system is structured now, and although there are many rought patches to go through, I think it is pretty obvious that the educational system here in Maine is as dysfunctional as is state government.
The end result of all of this is outrageous residential property taxes which by Maine law must be based on at least 75% of fair market value. As long as the educational system is funded by the residential property tax primarily, then taxes on residences will continue to rise, and the most expensive residences will be taxed most heavily.
Does this mean that people who have inherited their homes on the water must move? Probably, but not necessarily. There is a property tax relief program running right now that will refund up to $2000 of residential property tax to anyone whose taxes exceed a certain percentage of their income. This year I am elegible for a refund, next year I will not be. The year after that? Who knows? I expect this program will continue beyond this year, and the current deadline is May 31st.
But even if there is not, what is the solution? Why, changing the funding mechanism for public education and revising the educational system that is so expensive to begin with, of course.
And then, what happens if a property becomes so valuable due to the pressures of market that someone who inherited it needs to think about moving? Remember, property taxes reflect fair market value, so if someone inherited their little cottage on the water (as I did), and they now find that their little cottage is worth, say, half a million dollars their options are to continue to try to taxes or sell the property and move elsewhere, probably with quite an endowment to help to support their old age.
I spent all my childhood summers on this property that I live on today, and my great uncle was the first person to own the property when the lots along the water here were first surveyed around 1900. Do I WANT to leave? Well, the truth is that I am ambivalent toward the idea, because the entire area is changing so much, and down the road, Ellsworth is experiencing spasm on spasm of sprawl to the extent that the entire area is less inviting than it once was. And I know of other places in the state where I would like to live.
We may test the market late this year or next perhaps, and then maybe we'll move on to somewhere else, build something different, and save a piece of the legacy that my family gave to me, rather than spend it on property taxes.
Times and the progress of civilization change everything. And while people may or may not be forced off their property may be an unhappy byproduct of those changes, the simple fact is that a lot of people could really use some of the money that they are sitting on to help their overall quality of life particularly as they age. The entire issue presents a mixed bag.
And what about taxing those who come here "from away" and buy a second home? How should they be taxed? I personally think that they should be taxed just the same as the rest of us. And since we in Maine have been duped into believing that we can live on a service economy, then more and more of those services must be taxed, and the sale tax will have to foot more of the bill for services necessary to sustain civilization here.
Right now in the legislature there is a debate running in the Taxation Committee to reduce the income tax to a flat rate. I think that is a good idea, and at the same time the debate is to raise the sales tax one penny. I agree that increasing the sales tax is a good idea also, and items like restaurant and lodging should be taxed even more heavily (Sorry, Maine Restaurant Association: you are out to lunch in your oposition to this one!). Eating out and staying in motels if NOT a necessity, and I think there should be a food and lodgings tax in the range of nine or ten percent as it is in other states. I think the Interstate should also be a toll road all the way to Canada, and that additional revenue should be tied directly to the cost of education. AND it will also put more of the tax burden on those who come here for a short stay, use the services, roads, and infrastructure of the state, but are not here long enough to actually make a contribution to the overall cost of living of the State of Maine.
... ...you are overlooking one of the reasons property is sky high in Maine.
In my limited experience, I have seen that land prices generally go up everywhere.
Maine is not experiencing anything in that matter that everyone is not experiencing also.
On the other hand, I moved to Maine largely because of the cheap property.
I have lived in areas with expensive property and high cost-of-livings and wanted to live somewhere for cheap; thus I moved to Maine.
Quote:
... I would think that if you can afford a second home, you have money to throw around. You simply choose to spend it on a second home. Most people I know are happy just being able to afford one. Im thinking if I could afford to lay down a quarter to a half million dollars on a home that I would be in for a few weeks to a couple months a year, I would consider that a luxury purchase not a necessity. And for some reason Im thinking a lot of Maine people would agree with me on that one.
... Your generalizations on how people who by 2nd homes must have money to throw around, I do not even know how to respond to that. You almost have a resentment towards people who have had success financially. And why would you think you could never own a second home yourself, I know many hard working Mainers that own 2nd homes. And though I am not there yet I plan to be eventually.
Well said.
Quote:
... We all have choices in life and this country is supposed to be a free country in which you are free to succeed or free to fail. There are some people who think that those who have become financially successful have somehow cheated the system, got lucky, or now owe the ones who have not been so “lucky”. I do not understand how working in Maine correlates to failure. You do not have to leave the state of Maine to become successful. I live here and though I will be moving have been fairly successful.
I look around and I see some Maine folks who have been very successful; and I also see others who have not been.
Quote:
... As far as property taxes are concerned I’ll share this with you. You take a town, any town. Add up the total value of that town, than you take the total budget or cost of running that town and determine what percentage of the total value you need to pay for that budget. There is your MILL RATE.
Ex. if your home is worth 100k and your taxes are 2000 (mil rate of 20 ($20.00 for every $1000 in value) Now lets say everyone’s value has doubled. Your house is now $200k, but it still cost the SAME to run the town. Your taxes should still be $2000 with a mil rate of $10.00.
Bottom line, Increased home values does not automatically mean an increase in property taxes. If your paying more in property taxes its because the town you live in is spending more. Out of stators who own 2nd homes generally do not drive up city or town budgets. Families with children and unemployed immigrants usually have the biggest impact and generally it’s in our schools.
Well said.
Unemployed anyone, and more especially the unemployed parents of children.
Unemployment [or disability], plus title nine housing, plus food stamps, plus WIC, plus the school system.
No offense to tourists or people that own SECOND/VACATION homes here but doesnt it seem that the state should just tax the crap out of those people. It seems like a no brainer. I know personally I will never be able to afford a second/vacation home and obviously those people have the money to throw around.
That would encourage or increase home sales (thereby depreciating YOUR PROPERTY values) which would in turn LOWER the tax money for the state! Don't you see increasing taxes hurts the economy and doesn't help it. If you still don't get it look at Europe now which has VAT taxes of 23% and more. The economies are in shambles.
No offense to tourists or people that own SECOND/VACATION homes here but doesnt it seem that the state should just tax the crap out of those people. It seems like a no brainer. I know personally I will never be able to afford a second/vacation home and obviously those people have the money to throw around.
An outsiders point of view:
I come from L.I. NY where property taxes (mostly to schools) are 7-10K per year on avg. for a 3 BR dump.
I know many paying above 12K per year. I know, I know....this is where I was born. I tell many to get off of L.I. However, Thank god my wife and I have decent jobs. Just an avg. middle class couple, NOTHING more.
Anyway, We are presently looking for a SMALL vaca home in Maine. The ONLY way I could afford this is because we have no kids (not by choice). If I did, I'd be getting a second job and not going anywhere.
Anyway, If I am going to be "taxed the crap" out of for having a vaca home/tourist, I think I'll just visit, at most. After all.... if I own a vaca home, I am bringing in tax dollars to the state, correct? If those "vaca properties" taxes are too high, well....I'll stay home or find another vaca spot. Then how much tax dollars are brought in then? Not just property taxes, but also when I go out to eat, shop, restuarants, ect........
As far as buying this SMALL vaca home with "throw around" money....Not true. We all have the same opportunities as everyone else. Again, THE ONLY way I am able to do this is becuase I have no kids.
... We are presently looking for a SMALL vaca home in Maine. ...
I wish you luck in finding a perfect vacation home in Maine.
I hope you stay active on this forum, and after you do find your vacation home, post and tell us how you find property taxes compare between L.I. and Maine.
$7-10K /year for a 3BR home sounds rather high to me. I trust that you do know folks paying $12K+ /year.
I bet you find property taxes to be lower here, unless you buy along the coast, or near Portland.
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