U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Maryland
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-06-2014, 04:07 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
35,014 posts, read 44,609,608 times
Reputation: 45269
Yep, I was told I was wrong about what was going to happen so many times I lost count.

Despite Campaign Promises, Casinos, not Schools, are big Winners From Gaming Profits | Southern Maryland News Net

Well, I told y'all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-06-2014, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
6,590 posts, read 4,186,872 times
Reputation: 18633
Surely you're not surprised by this.

It's like when they stick us with a new tax to clean up the Chesapeake Bay. The tax gets collected, yet somehow the Bay never gets any cleaner . . . so eventually they'll end up levying yet another new tax to clean it up. And so on, and so on, and so on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2014, 07:58 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
35,014 posts, read 44,609,608 times
Reputation: 45269
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
Surely you're not surprised by this.

It's like when they stick us with a new tax to clean up the Chesapeake Bay. The tax gets collected, yet somehow the Bay never gets any cleaner . . . so eventually they'll end up levying yet another new tax to clean it up. And so on, and so on, and so on.

I'm not. I'm just wondering if others who told me I didn't know what I was talking about a couple years ago will admit they were wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2014, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
11,631 posts, read 6,632,828 times
Reputation: 18610
I'm not sure what your position was in the past. But if you are arguing that these casinos are bad for the state I could not disagree more. Sure it seems as if they changed the rules to allow other table games in an effort to ensure casino profitability and that switch tipped the balance in their favor. But let's not dismiss the $270 the state realized as insignificant, it simply means the casino made more with the addition of the new games.

The $270 million annually does not tell the entire story of all the indirect benefits these casinos produce. I am sitting in Berlin MD right now. 10 years ago this town was dead with boarded up stores all along Main Street. Now the downtown is totally different and the locals all point to the casino as the reason.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2014, 06:05 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
35,014 posts, read 44,609,608 times
Reputation: 45269
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
I'm not sure what your position was in the past. But if you are arguing that these casinos are bad for the state I could not disagree more. Sure it seems as if they changed the rules to allow other table games in an effort to ensure casino profitability and that switch tipped the balance in their favor. But let's not dismiss the $270 the state realized as insignificant, it simply means the casino made more with the addition of the new games.

The $270 million annually does not tell the entire story of all the indirect benefits these casinos produce. I am sitting in Berlin MD right now. 10 years ago this town was dead with boarded up stores all along Main Street. Now the downtown is totally different and the locals all point to the casino as the reason.
My argument was that there would be no "new" money created for schools. I read the legislation and realized that funding would end up being a wash. Which has been correct and everybody ignored that part and are acting surprised now.

We get a piece of the pseudo-slots in Chesapeake Beach. That was put in the casino legislation. CB had balanced its budget with that money for decades. It's dropped off by 1/2. The State estimates for us were 3 times what it actually is. We didn't balance our budget with it but you should have seen the special pleaders come out to get a piece of it. Then complain about their property taxes.

Berlin was redeveloping prior to Ocean Downs, it may have accelerated because of it.

My position was, and still is, that you don't balance your budget with gambling money. To see that in action look at Atlantic City now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2014, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
6,590 posts, read 4,186,872 times
Reputation: 18633
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
My position was, and still is, that you don't balance your budget with gambling money. To see that in action look at Atlantic City now.
Hear, hear! I'm not in favor of gambling, but if we must have it, its revenues should be used to fund "extra" stuff that can fluctuate as gambling revenue ebbs and flows. The state's basic operations should not be funded by the fickle hand of Lady Luck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2014, 10:30 AM
 
12,487 posts, read 18,105,518 times
Reputation: 6475
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
My argument was that there would be no "new" money created for schools. I read the legislation and realized that funding would end up being a wash. Which has been correct and everybody ignored that part and are acting surprised now.

We get a piece of the pseudo-slots in Chesapeake Beach. That was put in the casino legislation. CB had balanced its budget with that money for decades. It's dropped off by 1/2. The State estimates for us were 3 times what it actually is. We didn't balance our budget with it but you should have seen the special pleaders come out to get a piece of it. Then complain about their property taxes.

Berlin was redeveloping prior to Ocean Downs, it may have accelerated because of it.

My position was, and still is, that you don't balance your budget with gambling money. To see that in action look at Atlantic City now.
Not to mention numerous Indian reservations.

Also, are all the nickels generated by the bag tax being directed towards saving the Bay?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,590 posts, read 17,015,845 times
Reputation: 6371
Going exactly as I suspected although I was not opposed to casinos per se.

From the Atlantic:

A Good Way to Wreck a Local Economy: Build Casinos - Atlantic Mobile
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2014, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
11,631 posts, read 6,632,828 times
Reputation: 18610
From the article NB posted:


Since the first casino opened in Maryland, almost $700 million gambling dollars have gone into the Education Trust Fund. But lawmakers have used that money to replace rather than increase general fund revenues normally spent on schools. In other words, they have used it to free up general fund money for other purposes.

While the state’s education budget has fluctuated, that has been due largely to other factors like federal contributions.

There’s another reason the casino money has had little obvious impact on schools: Last year’s education budget totaled more than $7 billion, with the $285 million in the Education Trust Fund accounting for just a small fraction.


I get it, it appears as if the money from casinos did not have the promised effect on the MD schools And that is a valid point. As the start of the quote above points out lawmakers have diverted the money to the general fund, freeing up money for other uses.

Bottom line is $700 million dollars have been generated by casinos and that money has gone to your state for a variety of uses. Needs that we would have paid for with our tax dollars.

Works for me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2014, 02:19 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
35,014 posts, read 44,609,608 times
Reputation: 45269
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
From the article NB posted:


Since the first casino opened in Maryland, almost $700 million gambling dollars have gone into the Education Trust Fund. But lawmakers have used that money to replace rather than increase general fund revenues normally spent on schools. In other words, they have used it to free up general fund money for other purposes.

While the state’s education budget has fluctuated, that has been due largely to other factors like federal contributions.

There’s another reason the casino money has had little obvious impact on schools: Last year’s education budget totaled more than $7 billion, with the $285 million in the Education Trust Fund accounting for just a small fraction.


I get it, it appears as if the money from casinos did not have the promised effect on the MD schools And that is a valid point. As the start of the quote above points out lawmakers have diverted the money to the general fund, freeing up money for other uses.

Bottom line is $700 million dollars have been generated by casinos and that money has gone to your state for a variety of uses. Needs that we would have paid for with our tax dollars.

Works for me.
Some, but mostly new programs.

Couple of examples of what grinds my gears:
State Retirement System.
Since taking office O' Malley has taken about $1B from it to balance the General Fund (kinda like the Feds using Social Security to do the same). That has caused the Retirement System from having more than adequate reserves (105% of projected needs) to around 60% now to being on the edge of insolvency. This is after increasing member contributions by 25% (raise of 2%), which also went to the General Fund.

This year there was supposed to be a $300M payback, it was cut to $200M.

Highway User Revenue.
O' Malley zeroed that out for Counties and Municipalities a few years ago. That money was typically used for road and street improvements in the localities. Many of those projects were mandated by the State. It has been partially restored. We're getting about 1/7 of what we used to.

Remember, the gas tax was increased with that going to mass transit and not roads. They still need built/repaired.

In fairness the diversion of HUR has been going on, over several Administrations, since at least Shaffer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Maryland
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top