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All it needs is a people transplant. Yes, it did used to be beautiful and it was a wonderful place to shop and spend time. It's a great location. You'd have to get rid of those creeps who have moved in and helped to ruin it and replace them with decent, hardworking people. Then you'd have to re-create some businesses for them to work in.
I understand this feeling, but I'd instead say, "it needs for the new groups to assimilate some."
Don't get me wrong, I know there are people out there who just want to abuse the system and live in borderline poverty off of our money. They can go. However, it's easy to lump immigrant groups (even illegal ones) into the same category as the system abusers because many of them are poor.
The thing is, throughout history, EVERY new immigrant group has faced the same type of welcome from the established population. It has never been warm. The Chinese were the "scourge of humanity" when they first arrived (taking white men's jobs for little to no money- sound familiar?). Boston's North End was considered a "disgusting Italian slum" less than 1/2 century ago. The Irish were potato eating, lazy drunks who plagued our cities when they first arrived. These groups not only established themselves, but they've become anchors in their respective communities. In Boston, Chinatown and Little Italy (North End) are top destinations. This is no different than any other major city.
Springfield has a high percentage of new immigrants (many illegal). It'll take time (decades, perhaps) for these groups to assimilate. When they do, they too, will be the anchors of a thriving community.
I've seen this type of assimilation happen first hand growing up on the South Coast. New Bedford has had an influx of Portuguese immigrants spanning decades. Many of those living in these communities are second, third and fourth generation now. They've moved well beyond the low-paying trade jobs that previous generations came to America for. Many (most, perhaps) are college educated and moving around seeking loftier careers. In addition, the Portuguese community has become embraced. Portuguese restaurants alone are a destination in the area and the festivals attract people from all over the globe (the Maderian feast attracts 300,000 plus every year).
This is nothing new. It'll get better with time. Unfortunately, time is not a resource that someone looking to move "now" has.
I understand this feeling, but I'd instead say, "it needs for the new groups to assimilate some."
Don't get me wrong, I know there are people out there who just want to abuse the system and live in borderline poverty off of our money. They can go. However, it's easy to lump immigrant groups (even illegal ones) into the same category as the system abusers because many of them are poor.
The thing is, throughout history, EVERY new immigrant group has faced the same type of welcome from the established population. It has never been warm. The Chinese were the "scourge of humanity" when they first arrived (taking white men's jobs for little to no money- sound familiar?). Boston's North End was considered a "disgusting Italian slum" less than 1/2 century ago. The Irish were potato eating, lazy drunks who plagued our cities when they first arrived. These groups not only established themselves, but they've become anchors in their respective communities. In Boston, Chinatown and Little Italy (North End) are top destinations. This is no different than any other major city.
Springfield has a high percentage of new immigrants (many illegal). It'll take time (decades, perhaps) for these groups to assimilate. When they do, they too, will be the anchors of a thriving community.
I've seen this type of assimilation happen first hand growing up on the South Coast. New Bedford has had an influx of Portuguese immigrants spanning decades. Many of those living in these communities are second, third and fourth generation now. They've moved well beyond the low-paying trade jobs that previous generations came to America for. Many (most, perhaps) are college educated and moving around seeking loftier careers. In addition, the Portuguese community has become embraced. Portuguese restaurants alone are a destination in the area and the festivals attract people from all over the globe (the Maderian feast attracts 300,000 plus every year).
This is nothing new. It'll get better with time. Unfortunately, time is not a resource that someone looking to move "now" has.
Yeah sounds good, I'm all for assimilation. My ancestors knew all about that and wanted their kids to get up to speed as quickly as possible. I have numerable friends who have told me stories about how they missed the opportunity to speak another language because their parents or grandparents from Italy, Sweden, Poland never taught them because they wanted their kids to be AMERICANS, speak English and salute the American flag because they saw it as the best way for their kids to get ahead.
Mind you, these were legal immigrants who took the plunge and were not entertaining the idea of going back.
The problem I have with illegal immigrants is....well....they broke the law once by coming here and if all fails they can just scoot back home or at worst get a free ticket from Uncle Sam. Why assimilate? Go to areas in California or Texas and you'd think you were south of the border.
^What you're describing is no different than any first generation immigrant (illegal or not) here in the U.S. I've been to some of those areas in TX and CA (and Florida). They're no different than what an Irish ghetto or Italian ghetto or Chinese ghetto looked like 50+ years ago. In each of those areas it was like walking into the "old country" where everyone spoke Italian or Chinese, ate food from their homeland and lived like they were back home. The children of those immigrants(who will know nothing other than the U.S) will go to school here with Americans (who speak English), work here and establish themselves here. It takes time, but they'll adapt. We're not going to become Mexico (or Puerto Rico) North.
I'm not saying it's not frustrating, but it's just not the end of the world. It will get better. More than that, I don't think illegals or welfare recipients are the problem. The problem is the lack of economic interest in places like Springfield. I'd set my sights on trying to bring Springfield's economy into the 21st century instead of fighting illegals or trying to bring back manufacturing.
Springfield has a great location. It has access to a decent size airport, it's a good location close to Boston and New York. It's in an area where there are plenty of great colleges and universities. It's also an attractive area from a natural standpoint. It's a great place that just needs a shot in the arm.
Sigh .....As soon as 1 person posts a positive view of Spfld all the haters come out. I appreciate IRfox for being objective and not just seeing the worst in everything which to many people on this forum tend to do. And i also aplaud the OP for posting something positive and trying to spread good words about Springfield. It is refreshing to hear someone say something good about a city instead of crowing about the crime or traffic or whatever else bothers them. As far as the gangs and crime and general state of Springfield, why not try to be part of an uplifting instead of contributing to constant downing. the city has potential and will rise again,but i guess until that time most of you should just stay in your "hilltowns" where it's safe and lilly white with your doors and windows unlocked.
^What you're describing is no different than any first generation immigrant
No different except for the fact that traditionally those earlier immigrants that settled into our farming communities, mill towns and industrial cities entered legally through Ellis Island and committed no crime doing so.
The most adamant dissenter of illegal immigration I know is my wife, a 1st gen legal immigrant who worked hard, played by the rules, went through the process, paid the costs and is appreciative of the opportunity. To her and many people she knows in the community in a similar situation or from a similar background, it is quite unfair to accept anything less. IMO if anyone has a stake in the revival of an area, it is the people who worked hard and paid their dues to get there.
This discussion is a digression from the original topic but one that often invites differing opinion. I leave my comments on it here not wishing to test further the patience of the mods. I am appreciative of your overall opinion to a point at which we would probably continue to disagree.
Last edited by Justin Sparks; 02-26-2011 at 01:56 AM..
Sigh .....As soon as 1 person posts a positive view of Spfld all the haters come out. I appreciate IRfox for being objective and not just seeing the worst in everything which to many people on this forum tend to do. And i also aplaud the OP for posting something positive and trying to spread good words about Springfield. It is refreshing to hear someone say something good about a city instead of crowing about the crime or traffic or whatever else bothers them. As far as the gangs and crime and general state of Springfield, why not try to be part of an uplifting instead of contributing to constant downing. the city has potential and will rise again,but i guess until that time most of you should just stay in your "hilltowns" where it's safe and lilly white with your doors and windows unlocked.
With all due respect I do not see it that way. To me the value of City Data is real people with real life input that allows a reader to sample opinions not found on other edited "best place to live" type sites.
The root of critical thinking to me is criticism, that ideas and concepts pass muster and the critique of others, and get pared down to something that more resembles the way things are without the distortion of rose colored glasses or overly dark lenses.
I fail to see it as accurate that 'haters' come out on a thread by offering their opinions, which is what we do, or any more accurate to assume because that opinion differs from mine they might be doing so ensconced in their unlocked 'safe and lilly white' hilltowns.
Last edited by Justin Sparks; 02-26-2011 at 02:13 AM..
With all due respect I do not see it that way. To me the value of City Data is real people with real life input that allows a reader to sample opinions not found on other edited "best place to live" type sites.
The root of critical thinking to me is criticism, that ideas and concepts pass muster and the critique of others, and get pared down to something that more resembles the way things are without the distortion of rose colored glasses or overly dark lenses.
I fail to see it as accurate that 'haters' come out on a thread by offering their opinions, which is what we do, or any more accurate to assume because that opinion differs from mine they might be doing so ensconced in their unlocked 'safe and lilly white' hilltowns.
Couldn't have said it better myself!
Just to add a few points though as much as it might sound like I hate Springfield I actually don't.I guess I'm more disgusted of what the cities become an nothings being done about it.WM&LI...it's almost impossible to be apart of an "uplifting" when the average person can only do so much.I personally know several people who have been robbed or attempted to be robbed downtown and these were not in bad areas or late at night. As a matter of fact one was not to long ago just out side the MM Center,good thing he was carrying and deterred a bad situation.
Take a good look around the country and look where crime is the highest and the people who live there. MOST of these areas are the same ones filled with welfare and section 8.Sorry if this sounds racial but the truth is the truth and when people start to open their eyes and realize this that's when things will change for the better.If what I just said was false then you'd see these same problems in Wilbraham,E. Long.,Longmeadow,Hampden,etc... There's a huge difference between helping someone get back on their feet and supporting GENERATIONS of welfare recipients.Why someone thinks they're entitled to MY hard earned money is beyond
me. We continue to take away from the elderly and the Vets. but
reward those who are LAZY and continue to have kids who they cannot afford to take care of.
This discussion is a digression from the original topic but one that often invites differing opinion. I leave my comments on it here not wishing to test further the patience of the mods. I am appreciative of your overall opinion to a point at which we would probably continue to disagree.
With all due respect I do not see it that way. To me the value of City Data is real people with real life input that allows a reader to sample opinions not found on other edited "best place to live" type sites.
The root of critical thinking to me is criticism, that ideas and concepts pass muster and the critique of others, and get pared down to something that more resembles the way things are without the distortion of rose colored glasses or overly dark lenses.
I fail to see it as accurate that 'haters' come out on a thread by offering their opinions, which is what we do, or any more accurate to assume because that opinion differs from mine they might be doing so ensconced in their unlocked 'safe and lilly white' hilltowns.
I'll second that. It's very difficult on any of these forums, Justin, to actually engage in an honest, intelligent, well-informed discussion. It's all sunshine and light for many posters. You should survey the RI forum to see what I mean. I actually grew up and have spent countless hours there, and I'm amazed at the rose-colored views of many of the posters on that forum - so much so that I've pretty much given up posting there.
On Springfield, besides the obvious fact that it's a mess along with Holyoke, et. al., what I find most interesting is the "feel" there. It's hard to put my finger on it, but it's unlike any place else I've been to in New England. It's much more laid back than the rat race of Worcester and east in MA. And, architecturally it's different too. I remember the first time I went to the Big-E (the New England wide fair), I was blown away by the general feel, which was much different than Eastern Mass.
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We continue to take away from the elderly and the Vets. but 
